Sunspots

[doctor07]

I have a question. My project is "Do sunspot cycles consistently have a faster rise time and a slower decay time?". I am up to the part where I have to calculate the rise time and decay time but sciencebuddies doesnt tell me how to. Then, it explains to calculate the time different and I dont know how to do that. Science buddies said " Now you have all the information you need to calculate the onset time and decay time for each solar cycle. With what you've learned about spreadsheets so far, you should be able to do this on your own.
In addition, you should have Excel calculate the difference between the onset time and decay time for each solar cycle.
Finally, for all three values (onset time, decay time and difference), calculate the average and standard deviation for all 22 solar cycles.
Is there a difference?" I need to complete this project by this Monday. I have the board and everything ready, I just have to print up these results (but I dont know how to do it) and I have print up my conclusion (I cant do without these results). Can someone please help me? This is very important! Thank You

[deleted-71704]

Hi doctor07, welcome to ScienceBuddies!

It sounds to me like your question just has to do with simple subtraction. You need to find the onset time and the decay time, and then find their difference, right? So first what you need to do is identify the beginning, maximum, and end of each solar cycle, and the time at which these values occurred. Since onset time is the time from the beginning of the cycle to its maximum, you subtract the time of the beginning from the time of the maximum. You follow the same procedure for finding the decay time: since it is a measure of the time from maximum to the end of the cycle, simply subtract the maximum time from the end time. Think of a sunspot cycle like a day: it has a beginning (sunrise), a maximum (noon), and an end (sunset). Onset time is like the time it takes for the sun to go from sunrise to noon, and decay time is like the time it takes for the sun to go from noon to sundown.

To find the difference between onset and decay time, you just need to use subtraction again. For each cycle, either onset time or decay time will be greater than the other (they usually aren't exactly the same). Subtract the smaller one from the larger one, and you will have the difference between them. This tells you how much longer the longest time took than the shorter one.

If you are confused by the standard deviation, you can find help on the link from the Science Buddies project page: http://www.usd.edu/trio/tut/excel/.

Since you're using Excel, this should be quick and easy to do! You should definitely be finished by Monday when the project is due. Let me know if you have any more questions, and how the project turns out. Good luck!

-AerospaceGuy

[doctor07]

Oh My God! Thank you so much. You really helped me out! I was confused about when the onset time and decay time was but thank you so much for helping me out! My future depends on this grade and thank you for helping me complete even faster!

[deleted-71704]

You're welcome! Glad to be of help, and I'm glad to hear that you understand a little more about solar science and statistics. Good luck with finishing your project!

[doctor07]

I have another question. I understand everything that you told me! This question is about the rise and decay time. Do I calculate the rise and decay time with both the monthly sunspots and monthly smoothed sunspots? I am doing the report on this link: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p017.shtml?
It doesnt tell me and I was just wondering. If I have to do the monthly smoothed sunspots, it doesnt matter because I have the information but I just want to find out because if I dont have to do it, this would take some pressure off of my back! Thank You!

[doctor07]

I have another question! I know, I know! So many questions but I really want to get this project correct so I am really trying to get all of this information correct, that way I can graduate!!! Currently, I am doing the onset time and decay time and I am followng your instructions! But I have another question: The onset time data, can it be a negative? Or are all data numbers suppose to be positive? So far, all of my onset time is negative and my decay time is positive. Is the negative suppose to mean that it goes by faster or slower? I would suppose faster but I need some clarification on this. Also, I am kind of confused about the t-test. What is that suppose to prove? I understand my project and what not but I just want to make sure that what I am doing is correct so I can get a high grade on this and also when I present it, then I would know what I am talking about. Thank You!

[doctor07]

another question! what is the symbol for standard deviation in Excel? i cant find it!

[deleted-71704]

With regard to your first question, I believe the best thing to do would be to calculate the onset time, decay time, and difference for both the monthly data set and the smoothed data set. This is the safest way to go because the project instructions are vague, and it is also the most scientific thing to do because you would be analyzing all of your data, not just half of it. I think that your project would be a bit more impressive if you made a note in your observations about the differences between the calculations for corresponding solar cycles. By that I mean that it would be good for you to make a comment or two about how the monthly and smoothed data are very different or similar to each other, and explain why you think they are the way they are.

In response to your second question, the onset time cannot be negative. It is impossible to have negative time. You probably subtracted the times in the wrong order. The beginning of the cycle naturally comes before the maximum, and so you should take the maximum time value and subtract the beginning value from it. Do the same thing for decay time: essentially, you are subtracting the earlier time from the later time, like 6pm - 5pm. Does that make sense? You'll find that the onset and decay time values will be exactly the same, except positive and not negative. As for the T-test, I would suggest checking out these websites for clarification:

http://www.statsoft.com/textbook/statho ... sic.html&1

http://www.socialresearchmethods.net/kb/stat_t.php

http://www.columbia.edu/ccnmtl/projects ... about.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-test

Be careful about using the last one. Wikipedia is not very well respected as a credible source in the scientific community, so I wouldn't use it in my list of sources unless the others didn't make sense.

Finally, using Standard Deviation in Excel. Click on the functions button (it has the sigma symbol; if you're not familiar with that it looks like a Greek "E"), and go to "More Functions." Find "STDEV" in the list, and click it and click "OK," and then highlight the data for which you need that statistic.

I hope all that helps. Feel free to ask me any more questions.

[doctor07]

Thank you so very much. You have really helped me a lot. No more questions...... for now!

[doctor07]

I have another question about the difference. I subtrace the larger number from the smaller, right? Even if the larger number is the decay time and the smaller number is the rise time? Or if the rise time is greater than the decay time?

[doctor07]

My teacher let me extend it to Thursday and I really need to get this done by tomorrow so I can concentrate on the board! I have a question about the t-test. I know that I have to do the pairs, but what are the pairs of? Decay and rise time? Standard Deviation and Average? I am completely lost and science buddies is very vague.Thank You

[deleted-71704]

With respect to your first question, the point is that you find how much more time it took to rise or decay than it did to do the other. To do this, you should subtract the smaller number from the larger, such as 23-6 or 77-75. When doing these calculations, it does not matter which time value is smaller, it only matters that you subtract that amount from the larger one. It does matter which one is greater when you're analyzing your information, because you need to pay attention to trends and patterns. But don't worry about that yet, just make sure that you find the differences between the two.

As for your second question, you should think about what the t-test tells you. It is a statistical measure of correlation between two pieces of data, right? So essentially, you are comparing two values. The Science Buddies page for your project tells you which variables to use in the paired t-test:

Is there a difference between onset time and decay time? Is the difference statistically significant? You will be using a "paired t-test" for this calculation. The t-test tells you how confident you can be that your results are not simply due to random chance. You can use the t-test calculator given in the Bibliography, or you can put the formula in your spreadsheet, if you know it.

This tells you that you're comparing onset time with decay time using the t-test in order to determine if the differences between them are generally insignificant, or if the differences are so significant that your values are not credible. Essentially, you are testing to see if you made mistakes which affected your data, or if it is consistent. If you still have questions, I would suggest taking the time to read through the websites I recommended in my last post. You could also see a mathematics teacher at your school and ask him/her for clarification, or do a Google search for more websites. It would be best if you could answer your statistical questions on your own, because you would remember them better, and have a greater understanding of the purpose and conclusion of your experiment.

Glad to hear that you got an extension on your due date! Make sure you use that time wisely, and make the effort to fully understand what you are studying, what it means, and why it is significant. Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

[doctor07]

Thank You!

[doctor07]

Just one more question. My paired t-test, for the monthly sunspots, is .572. is that around the correct information? is it suppose to be that high?

[deleted-71704]

The Science Buddies page for your project says:

You can use this link: http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/stats/t-test.html to run a paired t-test on your data. Select the "paired t-test" choice. First you'll have to enter the number of data pairs (22). Next you'll get a page with a form where you can enter your pairs of onset and decay times for each solar cycle. When you've entered all the data, click on the "Calculate Now" button at the top of the page to get the results (which you can copy and paste for your lab notebook)...Include the p value with your results on your display board. You should be prepared to explain what it means.

The t-test is supposed to help you obtain a "p-value" which will determine the statistical significance of your data. Is that what your number is? Is .572 a p-value? Or is it not? I will be better able to help you once you respond to that question.

[doctor07]

Thank You so much! I have finished my project! I did what you asked and I asked my Math teacher to help me and today, he helped me finish it so now I can focus on the board and present it later on in the week! Thank You for your time and effort and trying to help me, which you did tremendously!!! I understand the paired t-test now and now I know about my results and what it is telling me! I am finished with everything, from defining the words to finding the results for the t-test, thanks to you, sciencebuddies.com, and my Math teacher!

[doctor07]

i have a question. what information can i use to say that sunspot cycles do not consistently have a faster rise time and a slower decay time?

[deleted-71704]

Doesn't it feel great to finish a project? My favorite part about science projects is presenting them. Wait until you get to do that, you'll have an even greater sense of accomplishment!

I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you not simply use your data to demonstrate what you said?

[doctor07]

Yes it does feel great to finish my project. Its ok, dont mind the other question! I finished and I am good! Thank You so much for helping me!!!!!

[deleted-71704]

You're very welcome, glad to be of help to you!