emagnetic power.

[tylers740]

I am just bairly seeing if it would be possible to make a electromagnetic power plant. The whole thing will fall apart if this is not true: Do very strong magnets produce heat when held together (very) tightly? That is why this is not my first choice.

[tylers740]

I mean magnetic. A ELECTROMAGNETIC POWER PLANT would be pointless.

[Craig_Bridge]

I'm not following what you are thinking about doing.

I am unfamiliar with any way to directly use magnetic fields to produce heat; however, strong magnetic fields can be used to induce electric current if there is some motion or change in the magnetic field involved. Induced electric current flowing through some resistance will produce heat.

[wildfirefox]

Magnetic power plant? Hydro-electric power plants uses huge magnets to create electricity by having the water (from dams or on the ocean coasts) turning the turbines, which drives the magnets around the wire coils that produces power. Same goes with wind mill power plants, which use the same methods but with wind to turn the small turbines.

But to have just magnets without additional source of energy influences, such as wind or water, that's a tough one at the moment. There's a project in Japan that utilizes the superconductor magnets in a sustainable loop energy source. After using a ridiculous amount energy to start the magnet, all it requires is a small amount of energy to keep the magnets hovering above the metal surfaces to keep the system rotating from the energy production, and whatever remaining energy will be used to power up the city.

Is this what you're talking about?

[tylers740]

First: if what you are saying is true VERY strong magnets placed togeter will NOT produce heat. Second: no that is not what I am trying to say.

[wildfirefox]

There are ultra strong magnets in nature as well as man made ones. You don't create heat when you place one to another. There is a very tiny level of heat created as the surfaces of the magnet slams together during adhesion, and sliding. The friction between the two surfaces create a tiny bit of heat, but not enough to consider it as significant, so, it's considered as nothing. But for you to generate heat from magnets, you have to rub two surfaces together constantly, which defeats the purpose of efficiency and practicality. You wear away the magnets or metal surfaces before you can create any electricity at all.

If I remember correctly, I did come across something in the old college days about molecular magnetic adhesion and diffusion in radiology as the boys play with a new form of radiation research. What they did was they crushed the magnets into tiny pieces, and add a few other raw elements in a chamber. Then they use an influence sphere with an induced pulsating electrical current as the sphere spun. This caused the magnet fragments to hover and circle the sphere, causing a form of magnetic resonance radiation to come about during the process. Heat was created from this process. I don't know how far they went this this, but it may be posted somewhere on the internet. I'll post it for you once I get something.

[bradleyshanrock-solberg]

It sounds like the idea is to put to magnets that oppose each other, lock them mechanically in place (clamps or something) and see if the temperature changes because they're trying to push each other apart and are not able to.

This is not as odd an idea as it sounds, because usually when mechanical forces push on something and don't move it, heat is generated somewhere. A car wheel will spin and create friction heat. A typical electric motor that works by spinning electromagnets around will in fact heat up if you prevent the motor from turning. Usually though, it's an effect of the machine not working properly and generating heat instead of the mechanical energy it is supposed to generate, not a direct result of a surface pressing against another surface and not moving it.

It seems like there is some potential energy there, I'm actually not sure what happens if you lock two magnets with opposite polarities next to each other. My instinct would be that if heat is generated, it is too weak to easily measure and would be carried away by normal air circulation.

If you attempt this you would want to avoid using electromagnets, as those generate some heat through the resistance in the wires that rap them and that would skew your results. You should be prepared for a "no measurable change" result.

[Craig_Bridge]

I'm still trying to understand what the investigator is really thinking about trying to do...

However, when I see musings like:

It seems like there is some potential energy there, I'm actually not sure what happens if you lock two magnets with opposite polarities next to each other. My instinct would be that if heat is generated, it is too weak to easily measure and would be carried away by normal air circulation.

that don't account for known physics, I feel compelled to speak up. Heat production requires work of some sort to be done. All the potential energy in the world is by definition at rest and not working so it is not going to produce heat.

[bradleyshanrock-solberg]

Sorry, I accidently used a precise term (potential energy) when I meant something more abstract.

The fact is that the magnets are "pushing" on each other.

If left free of restraint, they would move away from each other.

This is similar in concept to holding a ball in your hand. In absence of restraints, it would fall.

The concept of how much energy it would take to move the ball back to hand height if it did fall to the ground is expressed as "potential energy" and that doesn't match the concept I was trying to articulate.

As a rule, forces like that don't generate heat without a secondary effect going on.

Consider two bricks with a board on top of them. Putting a weight on the board does not cause the board to heat up over time, even though gravity is pulling on the extra weight. This is probably the situation closest to the magnet case. Once the weight has caused the board to sag a little, it is in equilbrium. Removing the weight will cause the board to spring up a bit, releasing energy stored by the weight pushing it down. This is how springs work, and it's a "stable" equilibrium. No energy is required to keep it in that state, so there is no source of ehat.

Now consider a device that requires active use of energy to support the weight. Perhaps something that blows air upward. It's not in stable equilibrium, because if the device is turned off, the weight will fall. Energy is expended every minute to keep the weight floating. In that case, over time, the device will get warmer because in the real world, there is always some energy wasted in heat. (some heat is always in normal use removed by exposure to air...so most devices don't get hotter and hotter)

I do not believe the latter case is a good model for what happens when you force two permanent magnets together. It is more like having an electromagnet on the bottom, and an oppositely charged magnet floating above it. (you probably need 3 magnetic sources underneath to make that stable, pushing from enough angles that it doesn't slide off to the side). Electromagnets heat up because you have to move electricity through a wire to make them function. Wires always have some resistance, and that causes some of the electric potential to be wasted in heat.

[bradleyshanrock-solberg]

Ah..I forgot to say that the two restrained magnets "pushing" on each other should be like the "two bricks and board with weight" case.

Instead of the magnets moving apart, whatever is restraining them will compress, storing the energy that would normally be used to cause the magnets to move.

That scenario causes no heat.

[wildfirefox]

And to sum it all up, correct me I am wrong colleagues, that magnet-magnet influences produce very little to no heat in order to generate energy, based on heat production.

As for emagnetic power generation, the possibility is there, but as for existing technology, it's not there.

Nam