Struvite & Plants

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Struvite & Plants

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

Hi, for my science fair project I am seeing if muck from the Indian River Lagoon, Florida, can be used as a fertilizer for non-edible plants. I need to know how I can precipitate struvite, I know the substances needed but I can't find HOW. Also, which non-edible plant is the best for testing for science? Thanks!
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by SciB »

Hello and welcome to Scibuddies.

For those of you who don't know, struvite is a relatively soft mineral composed of magnesium ammonium phosphate. It can form scale in pipes and apparatus of water-treatment plants and also makes kidney stones in humans, dogs and cats when urine is too alkaline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struvite

I could not find a specific method for precipitating struvite from solution but I did find that it is much more soluble in acidic solutions than basic. I think that would be the way to precipitate it. You did not say what you were wanting to precipitate it from--water from the Indian River or muck?

You could acidify the water or muck with vinegar and then try to precipitate the struvite with a base like ammonia (without detergent). I don't know if this will work. Try it and let us know what happened.

Sybee
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

Thank you! I think adding vinegar to the muck would help. Muck already contains magnesium, ammonium, and phosphate (there is some sewage and there's phosphate from detergent and fertilizer runoff). Could you suggest a non-edible plant that is good for testing on?
Last edited by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

I did a lot of research and found out that it just produces spontaneously on anaerobic pipes. I just need to extract muck from the Indian River Lagoon to see if it works and then use the struvite as a fertilizer!
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by SciB »

Try the vinegar and let me know what happens. I don't know if the pH of vinegar is low enough to dissolve the struvite. You may have to use something stronger like hydrochloric acid (pool supplies).

Also, since you plan to use it as a fertilizer, be sure to neutralize the struvite to a pH of about 7 before you put it on plants. If you collect the precipitated struvite by filtration, you can rinse it well with distilled water and that should neutralize it.

As to a plant that you can use as a test subject, it depends on your growing conditions. Winter is coming and you may not be able to grow plants outside. If you have them inside, the room needs to get about 6 hours of sun per day and be fairly warm. A south-facing sunny porch is perfect if it is not too cold.

As to what to grow, I would recommend something that germinates easily and grows upright so you can measure height as well as leaves and flowers. Marigolds, chrysanthemums, cosmos or zinnias are common flowers that are easy to grow and not fussy about conditions.

Hope this helps. Post again if you have more questions.

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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

Thank you! Also, you said the vinegar may dissolve the struvite? I am trying to crystallize it, not dissolve it, so I don't know if it will help crystallize or instead dissolve the struvite.
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by SciB »

You're welcome!

I'm not sure if struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate, MAP) will make actual crystals. Some compounds come out of solution as a precipitate rather than a crystal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precipitation_(chemistry)

Struvite kidney stones are, I think, aggregates of tiny crystals, but I'm not sure if you can crystallize struvite from river water and muck. It takes a fair amount of a compound to make visible crystals and i have no idea how much MAP is in the stuff that you will be using.

I think this is going to be one of those projects where you have to do some preliminary experiments before you can do the actual experiments. If you plan to try and recover MAP from muck then I would first try to dissolve it with acid treatment and then precipitate it by neutralizing the acid and maybe making the solution a little alkaline.

I realize that I may be using terms that you are unfamiliar with because you may not have had chemistry yet. If so, just google them or check youtube. All this is explained at various levels online and you might as well learn it now for your project.

You have to get the struvite (MAP) in solution at a decent concentration before you can crystallize or precipitate it. I just don't have any idea how much starting material it will take to get enough MAP to see. This is why you have to do a prelim expt. Keep good record of what you do in a notebook. If you use muck, put it in a big measuring cup or graduated cylinder and measure the volume. A scientist would probably dry the muck and weigh it, but as long as you have some measurement of how much you tested, that will do. You just don't want too much liquid with the muck because that would dilute the acid and I don't know how low pH you need to dissolve the MAP. Also, I don't know how long you need to let the muck sit in acid before you filter it and try to precipitate or crystallize the MAP. Leaving it overnight would not harm the struvite.

Well, i think that's enough for you to think about. Check online to get a better understanding of the chemistry of crystallization and precipitation and make a list of questions if you need specific help understanding the technical language.

Good luck!

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I need help with a title!

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

My science research project plan is done, I just need a catchy title. I'm seeing if hazardous "muck" from the Indian River Lagoon in Florida can precipitate struvite crystals that will benefit plant growth. I'm thinking "The Struvite Solution: Muck Manure" but that's not the best. Please help!

Moderator note: I've merged this post with your previous posts. Keeping all of the posts in the same thread will help the expert who has been helping you see that you have a new question. Thanks!
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by SciB »

I don't know...I kinda like "Muck Manure" myself. It has a nice earthy sound!
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by 9a56d8f60cb94f8a8e7f1eaabfc4e0f2 »

Hi again! Can someone find an MSDS for muck from the Indian River Lagoon and reply the link to me? I cannot find it anywhere and I need it for my Risk Assessment. Thanks!
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Re: Struvite & Plants

Post by SciB »

Hey again,

Good to hear from you. I was wondering how you made out with the project.

I don't think Indian river muck even has an MSDS. It's not sold as a product is it? I would think about the closest you could come would be a published analysis of the composition. It could have some pesticide or herbicide runoff, some heavy metals--maybe lead or mercury--but probably in such low amounts that you would have to eat a lot of it to have any effect and I don't see that happening.

There would certainly be some kinds of bacteria, algae and single-celled beasties but probably nothing pathogenic. The water is brackish, so there would not be any harmful freshwater microbes like amoebas, E coli or cryptosporidium.

Check Google Scholar and Pubmed for muck analysis. Somebody must have published something about it.

Good luck!

Sybee
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