MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:46 am

Hello!
I'm doing now this project:
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project-ideas/Chem_p109/chemistry/make-your-own-shampoo-and-test-how-it-performs#
and I have a few doubts about it :(
1. Is it ok if I use 25% wool yarn or it should be 100% wool?
2. Is the coconut milk shampoo supposed to have a foam? Because I didn't see any during dirt dispersion (with Indian ink)
3. Is every wool dried and washed from grease should be lighter than wool soaked with grease, but heavier than wool at start?

Please help me :(
Maja

norman40
Expert
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm
Occupation: retired chemist

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby norman40 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:49 pm

Hello Maja,

1. I don't know if 25% wool yarn will work with this project. My suggestion is to use 100% wool as recommended in the project procedure.

2. Did the coconut milk shampoo have any foam in the foaming behavior testing? If not you might want to re-check your formulation of that shampoo.

3. It's reasonable to expect that the after-wash wool will be heavier than the starting wool sample. That would happen if all of the grease isn't washed out.

I hope this helps. Please ask again if you have more questions.

A. Norman

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:23 am

Thank you so much, it helps me a lot. I'm going to buy 100% wool as you recommend (I asked because in my city it's actually hard to get 100% wool). As to the foam, I haven't done that part of project, but when I did the test for dirt dispersion, Castile soap herbal shampoo and store-bought shampoo were foaming whereas coconut milk wasn't. Anyway, I'll check it soon.
When it comes to weighing the wool, every wool at start should have 5g. When I soaked the wool with grease, every wool ball had a different weigh as it is said it should be. I think I didn't use enough water to remove the grease from wool, but at the end (next morning after doing this part) wool dried and washed weighed less than soaked with grease, but about 1g more than at start.
To sum up, I think I'll do the same thing with 100% wool yarn and I'll use more water to remove grease from it.

Thank you again!
Maja :)

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:29 pm

Hello again,
Today I made the rest of the project, this time with 100% wool.
The coconut milk shampoo doesn't have a foam and I don't know if it's a good result. :/ The second problem is a strange weight: the woal soaked with grease weighed 5,85g but after washing it neatly and drying it in the oven, it weighed 6,85g and it's still greasy... :/
Please, help me. Thank you in advance,
Maja

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:08 pm

And one more question: what's the role of aceton in this project? :/

norman40
Expert
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm
Occupation: retired chemist

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby norman40 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:07 pm

Hi Maja,

Based on its ingredients you might expect the coconut milk shampoo to have little or no foam. Did you see foam for the other shampoo in the foaming behavior test? And no foam (or less foam) for the coconut shampoo in the same test? Based on the project background information, what foaming test results would you expect?

Was your washed wool still wet when you weighed it? A small volume of water (1 mL) left after the drying step will add 1 g to the weight. You might try drying the washed wool for a little longer than the time listed in the instructions. Or you might try repeating the drying procedure until the weight doesn't change.

Acetone is used as the solvent for the artificial “hair grease”. Having the oils dissolved in acetone provides larger volume for soaking your wool samples. And the acetone evaporates very easily so that only the grease is left on the wool.

I hope this helps. Please ask again if you have more questions.

A. Norman

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:36 am

Thank you for your answer, but I'm sure the woolwas completely dry because I checked the weight even next morning and it was still the same. What is more, the wool in coconut shampoo feels greasy. I washed it neatly but it doesn't help. As I checked the information about using coconut milk for washing hair, it's used as a hair mask, to nourish and restore damaged dry hair, but should it be greasy? On this Internet site https://www.google.pl/amp/s/food.ndtv.com/beauty/10-amazing-coconut-milk-benefits-for-hair-face-and-skin-1421580%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off there is some information about it: "You can either wash your hair with equal amounts of coconut milk and shampoo, or use coconut milk as a leave-in conditioner. This adds volume to your hair, makes it less greasy and promotes longer, thicker hair (with that shine you’ve always wanted)." So it shouldn't be greasy :/ People add some olive oil or honey to coconut milk and they don't have greasy effect... I don't know if it should heavier (I mean about 7 or even 9g) because my "hair" (=wool) isn't damaged or something... Please help me because I believe it should remove some grease anyway. :/
Thank you in advance,
Maja :(

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:38 am

And speaking of the acetone, I meant what the acetone replaces, because in real life I don't use acetone for hair. :/

norman40
Expert
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm
Occupation: retired chemist

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby norman40 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:08 pm

Hi Maja,

According to your post, the grease-soaked wool weighed 5.85 g. After washing and drying the wool it weighed 6.85 g. This implies that the washing and drying process added 1 g to the weight of the grease-soaked wool. But the washing and drying process should not cause the wool to gain weight. Instead, washing should remove some of the grease which should result in a lower weight (less than 5.85 g in this instance).

How might you get a washed wool weight that's too high? One possibility I mentioned before is that your washed sample might have some water left after the drying procedure. Allowing the wool to stand overnight as you mentioned may not have dried it any further. My suggestion is to try drying the wool again using a hair dryer as described in the project procedure. If this results in a lower weight, you could try repeatedly drying and weighing until the weight is constant.

If your washed wool is fully dried and the weight is still too high, there may be an error in one or both of your weights.

I'm not sure I understand your question about the acetone. Acetone is not used as an ingredient in the shampoo recipes of this project so it doesn't “replace” anything. The acetone is used as a solvent in the preparation of the artificial “hair grease” as described in the project procedure.

I hope this helps. Please ask again if you have more questions.

A. Norman

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 pm

After my last answer to your post, I checked the formulation of the coconut milk and some blogs about using it on hair. It turned out that the coconut milk isn't good for oily hair but to dry and dandruff-prone. It adds some weight because of many proteins in it. I think it might be a final conclusion. Do you agree with me? Everybody who used the coconut milk on oily hair confirmed that it was even more greasy and heavy than before washing but it had great effect on dry hair. In the project the wool is soaked with grease so I think my conclusion might be correct.
I wondered what would happen if I didn't use the acetone, just soake the wool with grease and try to wash it because for my natural sebum I use only shampoo and water, so is the acetone really a necessity? I'm aware that it's not a natural sebum but...
Thank you in advance!
Maja
PS I'm grateful for your patience and answers to my constant questions. Our teacher is demanding and I would like to know every aspect of my project possibly in the best way. Thank you so much again! :)

norman40
Expert
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm
Occupation: retired chemist

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby norman40 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:15 pm

Hello Maja,

Sorry, but I don't agree that the protein content of the coconut milk shampoo caused the high weight (6.85 g) you reported for your washed wool. While coconut milk shampoo might leave a small amount of residue on hair, you've reported a 17% weight gain after washing the yarn.

The “cleaning power test” described in the project procedure is designed to measure the weight loss from the grease-soaked wool due to the washing process. If you carefully follow the procedure you'll find that washing and drying the grease-soaked wool will remove some of the grease. And you'll see a lower weight for the washed and dried sample. At this point you might want to review the procedure and repeat the test.

If you soak the yarn in the artificial hair grease mixture (without the acetone) you'll end up with way too much grease on the yarn. And the grease may not be evenly distributed through the yarn. My suggestion is to prepare the grease mixture with the acetone as described in the project procedure.

I hope this helps. Please ask again if you have more questions.

A. Norman

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:56 pm

Okay. I don't know what I'm doing wrong because I've already had 3 tests and in every the sample was too heavy. I had followed the recipe and I didn't change anything. Tommorow it's deadline for my school project so I think I won't do anymore tests. We will see.
Thank you again for your help and patience!
Maja

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:20 pm

I'm now reading the recipes to make a coconut milk shampoo and people use in a Castile soap - this ingredient has some surfactants. And this one I made it doesn't have any, because I don't think that the only coconut milk washes hair. I'm going to make one more test but using this time a little bit of Castile soap. I suppose the result would be better. Would you agree with me or rather not? :/
Maja

norman40
Expert
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:49 pm
Occupation: retired chemist

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby norman40 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:00 am

Hi Maja,

Adding some Castile soap may make the shampoo better at cleaning the grease off yarn. But I think the problem you're having with the high weights is related to your washing procedure.

The washing procedure adds water and shampoo to the yarn and you need to remove both to get a correct weight for the yarn. Leftover water and/or shampoo could cause a high weight.

Are you rinsing the yarn well after the washing procedure? Or perhaps you are using too much shampoo (the procedure calls for 10 g of shampoo in a 200 g water solution).

I hope this helps. Please ask again if you have more questions.

A. Norman

MajaErni
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Occupation: Student

Re: Shampoo: science fair project - problems

Postby MajaErni » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:10 am

I swear I used 10g of shampoo in 200g water solution. I dried it with a hairdryer and then in the oven but it didn't help. :?


Return to “Grades 6-8: Physical Science”