Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Magnetic properties in coins

Postby Varitsara » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:19 pm

This is my first year doing a science fair, and i came across this web site and found this interesting idea, "Circus walking coins on a (Vertical) high wire"

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring ... ?from=Home

the website tells you everything, what materials you need, what MAGNET you need to buy, and i bought that magnet. (neodymium cylinder magnet)

the project was suppose to be about magnetic properties in coins, but once i ran this Magnet over US coins, NONE of them stick to the magnet!!
I need help, i wanted to know what kind of coins have magnetic propertiy in them, the kind that would make it stick to the neodymiun magnet.
The coins can be from another country, i can go to the bank and exchange the money, but i just need to know what kind of coins, from what country, would stick to this magnet.

Thank you,
Kim

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

heyy

Postby Varitsara » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:43 pm

I appreciate the help!!!!! =]
Thank you very much

geoffbruton
Former Expert
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Postby geoffbruton » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:56 am

Hi Varitsara,

This sounds like an interesting and fun project! I read over the Science Buddies Project Ideas for this project and also looked up the web links provided. Did you get a chance to read those websites, too?

It sounds as though the neodymium cylinder magnet should attract a penny. Have you tried this?

Also, there are two other options that may work:

1) Try asking your friends and their families as to who has traveled abroad. Very often, when people come back from vacations or business trips out of the country, they have a pocket full of spare change in currency from that country that they can't do anything with - I know I always do! They may be willing to let you borrow some for the purposes of this science fair project - but please be sure to ask nicely and to let them know that they will be getting their money back when you are finished!

2) Another option is one that is on the Science Buddies Project Ideas website that you provided. The author suggests using different types of washers - all of which are very cheap at your local hardware store. There are quite a few different kinds available, so you might want to look at a range of different washers. Please make sure that whichever ones you buy, you write down the type of washer - they can often look very similar!

Anyway, please let us know your thoughts and good luck!
Geoff.
Geoff Bruton
Firearm & Toolmark Section
Ventura County Sheriff's Department
Forensic Sciences Laboratory

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Postby Varitsara » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:42 pm

what is a washer?

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Postby Varitsara » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:43 pm

and thank you Mr. Bruton!!

yes, i have tried it on a penny, but it didn't work.

geoffbruton
Former Expert
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:02 am

Postby geoffbruton » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:39 pm

Hi Varitsara,

Sorry to have not explained what a washer was! Please check out the following website and you'll see how useful they might be for your project:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washer_%28hardware%29

Hope this helps!
Geoff.
Geoff Bruton

Firearm & Toolmark Section

Ventura County Sheriff's Department

Forensic Sciences Laboratory

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Postby Varitsara » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:00 pm

OHHH

i got it..

thank you Mr.Burton!

all washers have madnetic properties right?

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Postby Varitsara » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:06 pm

and in your opinion....
do you think this project is too easy for me?
10th grader..
if it is, how can i make it more complicated/harder?

geoffbruton
Former Expert
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:02 am

Postby geoffbruton » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:13 am

Hi Varitsara,

With regards to your question as to whether or not all washers have magnetic properties: What are your thoughts? Some of those listed on the Wikipedia website indicate that some are rubber - so I seriously doubt those would be magnetic, unless they have something else added to the washer.

As for the other metallic washers typically available at your hardware store, I think that could definitely be a part of your project! This was the reason why I recommended making a note of specifically of the types of washers you buy. Since the magnet you're going to be using is very strong, you may find that some of the non-ferrous (that is, those which do not contain iron) metals and alloys may also exhibit magnetism. (This was actually why I was surprised that none of the U.S. coins you examined were magnetic.) Part of your research should also include which metals can exhibit this phenomenon and consequently, do the coins or washers in your experiment? If so, why?

One of the main reasons for scientific inquiry is to make predictions. If you know that a coin, for example, can be made to "walk the high wire" in your project, what can you say about the elemental composition of the coin, if you didn't already know? The other side of this question would be that if you knew (by some other means) the elemental content of something, you could predict if that object would be capable of being magnetized.

I went back and re-read the brief of this project and noted that the difficulty rating is 6-7 - meaning that it is aimed at students around grade 7 or 8. Personally, I think making the apparatus looks challenging, so I don't know how well I would do! Despite this, if you would still like to go ahead and work on this project, you should be able to go into more depth on the basis for what is happening and perhaps see if you can apply it to a current question or challenge. Even projects that appear on the surface to be extremely easy are actually very complex if you look deep enough and question what, exactly, is happening.

Quite a way down the project guide is a section entitled, "Terms, Questions and Concepts to Start Background Research":
>>>>
To do this project, you should do research that enables you to understand the following terms and concepts:

ferromagnetism,
ferromagnetic material,
metals that can be magnetized,
alloys.

More advanced students would want to study:

the concept of magnetic fields and magnetic flux lines,
magnetic forces,
electromagnetism,
atoms.
>>>>

I think if you go ahead and start reading up on these areas you will find that the subject matter really is quite complex, and you can make this project as challenging as you want. As long as you follow the scientific method - and document everything you do, every step of the way - I know you'll do a great science fair project.

Please let us know your thoughts and good luck!
Geoff.
Geoff Bruton

Firearm & Toolmark Section

Ventura County Sheriff's Department

Forensic Sciences Laboratory

Varitsara
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Postby Varitsara » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Thank you Mr.Burton!
i will start working on my research, well i have a little bit because i just turned 30 notecards of facts in (its a requirement).

And I will keep updating on my project and i'll come back here for sure if i have anymore question.

i appreciate your help!!
Thank you very much Mr.Burton
Kim

bradleyshanrock-solberg
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Postby bradleyshanrock-solberg » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:47 pm

This is a very interesting project.

If I was you, I would take the magnet you already bought and go to a hardware store and try it out on the various round objects (washers and similar) that they sell there. It is likely to work on some of them. Use them for your project.

Ie, it might be easier to find a round metal object to fit your magnet than to find a magnet to fit the coins.

bradleyshanrock-solberg
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:44 am
Occupation: Software Engineer/QA Lead - Quality, Risk Assessment, Statistics, Problem Solving

Postby bradleyshanrock-solberg » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:49 pm

Hm, one more thing.

The composition of US coins has changed a lot in recent years. I believe the penny changed in the 80s from copper to something else and all of the silver in coins went away in the 60s.

If you have a friend or relative with a coin collection containing older coins, or perhaps coins from a foreign country, you may find some that work (and researching their composition and why they work would also be interesting)


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