I apologize if this is not the right place to ask this question.
This is my question:
If we make at time machine; A box that instantaneously jumps one hour into the future, but stays in it's exact place.
Where would that place be...?
The earth will have turned, so the place will have moved in relation to that, but the earth will have moved around the sun too, and the solar-system in relation to the center of the Milky Way, and so on.
How far will the place, the time machine was build on have moved away, in an hour, and how could it be calculated..?
Thank you very much.
Where would a time machine be...?
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SciB
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Re: Where would a time machine be...?
Interesting thought experiment. Too bad Einstein is not around to ask...
The way I think of time travel is by changing the space-time 'fabric' rather than actual physical movement. You will be able to view the future but not interact with it. Otherwise you always run into the time-travel paradox of altering an event that would delete you from existing. If in the future your box remained where it was then you will 'see' it there when you look one hour ahead. If someone has taken the box to the post office to mail then there will be no box to see.
Your question supposes a physical object can be teleported into the future and then where would it materialize. I suppose the time machine could have a system of coordinates built in like the Star Trek transporter so that the box would not end up floating in space because the earth and sun have moved relative to their point in space one hour back.
Maybe the sun and its planetary bodies are not moving at all but rather the space-time 'stuff' is flowing past them. When we see a star we are not looking at an actual body in space but light that may have been traveling a thousand years before we see it--so where is the original star? It may have super-nova'ed out of existence already.
Once you start trying to wrap your mind around space-time and relativistic travel, things can get pretty weird. Maybe when AI machines get a lot smarter they will be able to help us understand.
I wish there was some way you could turn this into a science project. Any ideas experts?
Sybee
The way I think of time travel is by changing the space-time 'fabric' rather than actual physical movement. You will be able to view the future but not interact with it. Otherwise you always run into the time-travel paradox of altering an event that would delete you from existing. If in the future your box remained where it was then you will 'see' it there when you look one hour ahead. If someone has taken the box to the post office to mail then there will be no box to see.
Your question supposes a physical object can be teleported into the future and then where would it materialize. I suppose the time machine could have a system of coordinates built in like the Star Trek transporter so that the box would not end up floating in space because the earth and sun have moved relative to their point in space one hour back.
Maybe the sun and its planetary bodies are not moving at all but rather the space-time 'stuff' is flowing past them. When we see a star we are not looking at an actual body in space but light that may have been traveling a thousand years before we see it--so where is the original star? It may have super-nova'ed out of existence already.
Once you start trying to wrap your mind around space-time and relativistic travel, things can get pretty weird. Maybe when AI machines get a lot smarter they will be able to help us understand.
I wish there was some way you could turn this into a science project. Any ideas experts?
Sybee
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AeroSE
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Re: Where would a time machine be...?
My interpretation of the question is not truly based on time travel. I think this can be reduced in complexity to: how far does any spot on earth move in an hour? While the question is about where will the box be if it were to go an hour into the future, I think it is relatively similar to look at where that spot was an hour ago in comparison where that spot is now.
The difficult part of this question is that there are many different velocities (rotation of earth, orbit around the sun, solar system's galactic velocity, galactic velocity within virgo supercluster, etc).
Mathematically, we can assess each velocity and incorporate each velocity vector so long as we do so in a consistent reference plane. Unfortunately, the answer to this question will be, it depends.
Due to the earths rotation, the earth will turn 15 degrees towards the east in an hour. This is the first variable. If the position is at a pole, then the point will rotate and not move. If the point is at the equator, the point will move a little over a 1,000 miles towards the east.
At the next level, the earth is orbiting the sun. If we assume the point of interest is on the equator (rather, any point not on the north or south pole) we run into another variable. As the direction of the velocity vector due to the rotation of the earth may be in the same direction as the orbit(Velocity would be added), opposite direction(Velocity would be subtracted), or some variation including a lateral components (3d velocity components).
If we simplify this by saying that the point is on a pole, we can then equate the position change over the hour by how far the earth orbits the sun in an hour. But this introduces another dependent variable. Since the earth's orbit about the sun is not perfectly circular, the velocity of the earth relative to the sun changes with respect to where it is in the orbit.
Without even getting out of the solar system, the answer is really dependent on a lot of variables, many more than I mentioned.
All of these variables can be accounted for if enough information is provided. Such as the time, position and relativistic velocities of the major bodies.
To finally wrap up this all up, how would you describe this point in space? Or if the point were to actually be under the surface of the earth? We would describe the point, relative to nearby points of reference, such as the Sun, the Earth and/or the Moon.
If you want to make this into an experiment, you could manipulate a few of the variables and determine a range that the point would be located in. If i determine the minimum and max displacements due to rotation and also for orbit, I can compile them in various manners to determine the possible locations for this point after an hour. While this is not a single answer point, it would show all possible solutions depending on your variables. Would actually be pretty interesting to see how significant the location would vary based off these differing variables.
The difficult part of this question is that there are many different velocities (rotation of earth, orbit around the sun, solar system's galactic velocity, galactic velocity within virgo supercluster, etc).
Mathematically, we can assess each velocity and incorporate each velocity vector so long as we do so in a consistent reference plane. Unfortunately, the answer to this question will be, it depends.
Due to the earths rotation, the earth will turn 15 degrees towards the east in an hour. This is the first variable. If the position is at a pole, then the point will rotate and not move. If the point is at the equator, the point will move a little over a 1,000 miles towards the east.
At the next level, the earth is orbiting the sun. If we assume the point of interest is on the equator (rather, any point not on the north or south pole) we run into another variable. As the direction of the velocity vector due to the rotation of the earth may be in the same direction as the orbit(Velocity would be added), opposite direction(Velocity would be subtracted), or some variation including a lateral components (3d velocity components).
If we simplify this by saying that the point is on a pole, we can then equate the position change over the hour by how far the earth orbits the sun in an hour. But this introduces another dependent variable. Since the earth's orbit about the sun is not perfectly circular, the velocity of the earth relative to the sun changes with respect to where it is in the orbit.
Without even getting out of the solar system, the answer is really dependent on a lot of variables, many more than I mentioned.
All of these variables can be accounted for if enough information is provided. Such as the time, position and relativistic velocities of the major bodies.
To finally wrap up this all up, how would you describe this point in space? Or if the point were to actually be under the surface of the earth? We would describe the point, relative to nearby points of reference, such as the Sun, the Earth and/or the Moon.
If you want to make this into an experiment, you could manipulate a few of the variables and determine a range that the point would be located in. If i determine the minimum and max displacements due to rotation and also for orbit, I can compile them in various manners to determine the possible locations for this point after an hour. While this is not a single answer point, it would show all possible solutions depending on your variables. Would actually be pretty interesting to see how significant the location would vary based off these differing variables.
Re: Where would a time machine be...?
Thank you so much for the answers.
AeroSE: You are right in your reframing of my question, the question is really something along the lines of:
"Can one state a hypothetical static point in the universe, that does not move, yet everything else does?"
And I guess, according to relativity, the answer is simply "no"
AeroSE: You are right in your reframing of my question, the question is really something along the lines of:
"Can one state a hypothetical static point in the universe, that does not move, yet everything else does?"
And I guess, according to relativity, the answer is simply "no"