skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

Topic Help (Grade 8 / 13 years old)

Postby skyheartsci07 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:14 pm

So, I think I want to do a something about the affect of different liquids on nails (or something else metal), such as soda, lemon juice, water, salt water, orange juice, grape juice, milk, vinigar, etc. I don't know how to do this though, because I don't think theres a way to measure the dependant variable (the affect on the nail). I guess I could use the pH measurement for the different liquids, but I still can't measure the results. Should I pick another topic? I really wanted to try this one, though. Is there a way to do it?

skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

Please hurry!

Postby skyheartsci07 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:15 pm

Please help, I need to get off the computer soon!

skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

*sigh*

Postby skyheartsci07 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:21 pm

I'll check back here later!

staryl13
Former Expert
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:27 pm
Occupation: Research Assistant

Postby staryl13 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:21 pm

Hi!
I tried googling your topic and here was a site that came up:
http://www.finishing.com/264/09.shtml
Although the information may not be 100% accurate, the person seems to be interested in the same project as you are. This experiment determined the effect of pH on nail corrosion, so this will give you some food for thought as to how to go about starting your project. Good luck!
"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -Isaac Asimov

skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

Postby skyheartsci07 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:44 pm

staryl13 wrote:Hi!
I tried googling your topic and here was a site that came up:
http://www.finishing.com/264/09.shtml
Although the information may not be 100% accurate, the person seems to be interested in the same project as you are. This experiment determined the effect of pH on nail corrosion, so this will give you some food for thought as to how to go about starting your project. Good luck!


Well thank you, staryl13, I'll check it out. I originally thought of this idea from a rumor that Coke could actually disolve metal. I wanted to turn it into a science fair project. I thought if Coke really did disolve metal, I could measure the mass, but I decided to use many substances, some of which would rust the nail. Also, how will I make a graph of this? Dependant variables go on the y-axis, which might not work. And also, would testing the pH be part of the project? Or could I just look up the pHs online? Try to get back to me soon! Thanks in advance :?

staryl13
Former Expert
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:27 pm
Occupation: Research Assistant

Postby staryl13 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:55 pm

Hi again!
Glad I could help. To make a graph, you could have pH as the independent variable on the x axis and the change in mass on the y axis. For this project, I would recommend using known pH values for the substances. But make sure that your scale is accurate enough to detect the mass changes. Good luck!
Yvette
"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -Isaac Asimov

Louise
Former Expert
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:17 pm

Postby Louise » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:34 pm

skyheartsci07 wrote:
staryl13 wrote:Hi!
I tried googling your topic and here was a site that came up:
http://www.finishing.com/264/09.shtml
Although the information may not be 100% accurate, the person seems to be interested in the same project as you are. This experiment determined the effect of pH on nail corrosion, so this will give you some food for thought as to how to go about starting your project. Good luck!


Well thank you, staryl13, I'll check it out. I originally thought of this idea from a rumor that Coke could actually disolve metal. I wanted to turn it into a science fair project. I thought if Coke really did disolve metal, I could measure the mass, but I decided to use many substances, some of which would rust the nail. Also, how will I make a graph of this? Dependant variables go on the y-axis, which might not work. And also, would testing the pH be part of the project? Or could I just look up the pHs online? Try to get back to me soon! Thanks in advance :?


Don't expect an answer faster than 24-36 hours... experts are not around 24/7. You've been lucky tonight! :)

You can find the pH's online or at the library. You could measure the mass change; you would have to determine a good method of removing any rust. For example, you could remove the object and let it dry and then brush the rust off, otherwise you'd be weighing rust. Nails are also made of many different metals. Some will be completely non-reactive, some will rust like mad!

As for the Coke, it is acidic (many drinks are, carbonated drinks always are). I've always heard that is was a useful rust remover; just soak your object in it, and the rust washes away. This probably isn't the best or fastest way to remove rust of an object. Here are two sites which discuss Coke dissolving metal:
http://joshmadison.com/misc/projects/coke_nail/
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp

One last thing, rusting metal and dissolving metal are pretty similar processes. You should probably do some research on this chemistry. I think the guy who did the experiment I link to above probably missed some thing by not weighing the nails.

Anyway, I think this is a really cool project, and there are a lot of interesting things you can do with this! Good luck.

Louise

skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

Reply:

Postby skyheartsci07 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:12 pm

staryl13 wrote:Hi again!
Glad I could help. To make a graph, you could have pH as the independent variable on the x axis and the change in mass on the y axis. For this project, I would recommend using known pH values for the substances. But make sure that your scale is accurate enough to detect the mass changes. Good luck!
Yvette

Thank you! :D Well, I guess I'll ask my techer what she thinks, just in case.

skyheartsci07
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm

:D

Postby skyheartsci07 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:23 pm

Louise wrote:
skyheartsci07 wrote:
staryl13 wrote:Hi!
I tried googling your topic and here was a site that came up:
http://www.finishing.com/264/09.shtml
Although the information may not be 100% accurate, the person seems to be interested in the same project as you are. This experiment determined the effect of pH on nail corrosion, so this will give you some food for thought as to how to go about starting your project. Good luck!


Well thank you, staryl13, I'll check it out. I originally thought of this idea from a rumor that Coke could actually disolve metal. I wanted to turn it into a science fair project. I thought if Coke really did disolve metal, I could measure the mass, but I decided to use many substances, some of which would rust the nail. Also, how will I make a graph of this? Dependant variables go on the y-axis, which might not work. And also, would testing the pH be part of the project? Or could I just look up the pHs online? Try to get back to me soon! Thanks in advance :?


Don't expect an answer faster than 24-36 hours... experts are not around 24/7. You've been lucky tonight! :)

You can find the pH's online or at the library. You could measure the mass change; you would have to determine a good method of removing any rust. For example, you could remove the object and let it dry and then brush the rust off, otherwise you'd be weighing rust. Nails are also made of many different metals. Some will be completely non-reactive, some will rust like mad!

As for the Coke, it is acidic (many drinks are, carbonated drinks always are). I've always heard that is was a useful rust remover; just soak your object in it, and the rust washes away. This probably isn't the best or fastest way to remove rust of an object. Here are two sites which discuss Coke dissolving metal:
http://joshmadison.com/misc/projects/coke_nail/
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp

One last thing, rusting metal and dissolving metal are pretty similar processes. You should probably do some research on this chemistry. I think the guy who did the experiment I link to above probably missed some thing by not weighing the nails.

Anyway, I think this is a really cool project, and there are a lot of interesting things you can do with this! Good luck.

Louise


These people got no results, so I'll leave the nails in for a few weeks, not days.

PS: Why is this smiley's mouth twitching? :| :arrow::lol:
And this one has bug-eyes! :arrow::shock:


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