Science Buddies: "Ask an Expert"

Okay, thanks! If I did discard this age group, would my project still be as interesting and comparative, though? I was thinking of re-testing the children.


Please reply, ASAP!!

Thanks.

SciFi1 wrote:Okay, thanks! If I did discard this age group, would my project still be as interesting and comparative, though? I was thinking of re-testing the children.


Please reply, ASAP!!

Thanks.

The forum already works "ASAP"... experts are in all time zones (as are the students) If someone is around and can answer your question, they will, but it can take 24-36 hours. We don't ignore questions, so asking for an ASAP or a fast answer doesn't help you get a faster answer.

You could retest the children with the same procedure, but you should consider that the results may be biased if you test the same children. If you can test different children, that would be fine. If you test the same children as before, the results may or may not be valid. If this were my experiment, I would not retest the same children.

You should probably review the variables section of the scientific method. There is a good link at the Science Fair Project Guide above.

Louise

The forum already works "ASAP"... experts are in all time zones (as are the students) If someone is around and can answer your question, they will, but it can take 24-36 hours. We don't ignore questions, so asking for an ASAP or a fast answer doesn't help you get a faster answer.

Sorry about that.

Thanks for your help, though, I really appreciate it.

SciFi1 wrote:

The forum already works "ASAP"... experts are in all time zones (as are the students) If someone is around and can answer your question, they will, but it can take 24-36 hours. We don't ignore questions, so asking for an ASAP or a fast answer doesn't help you get a faster answer.

Sorry about that.

Thanks for your help, though, I really appreciate it.

No problem. I just wanted to explain how things work, so you don't think people aren't answering your questions.

If your other two sets of data show a clear effect, it may not be important to have the data set with the young children. Have you looked at the data carefully?

Louise

Yes, I have checked the data carefully. I have more questions regardless of this issue, though. For my experiment, I have two independent variables:
a) The age groups receiving the math tests, and
b)the volunteers listen to music for the first test, and do not listen to music for the second test.

Does that mean that my experiment is not fair enough? Also, will the different age spans contradict my results (adults-21 to 50 years of age, young adults-13 to 20 years of age, children-8 to 12 years of age)? Will a judge question or disagree with these age groups because the age spans are not consistent (or something along the lines of that)? Also, how can this project be used to consider societal/economical implications? I think that this project enables us, human beings, to fully understand our strengths and discover our true potential; this project acknowleges our strengths and weaknesses. It enables us to realize how to teach ourselves and how to learn, as well. I guess I will have to do more research. Lastly, in my procedure, should I include the part where you have to calculate the total average score and timing for each of the age groups? Please answer the questions above, and give me any suggestions.

Please reply soon.

Thank you.

Hi SciFi1,

For my experiment, I have two independent variables:
a) The age groups receiving the math tests, and
b)the volunteers listen to music for the first test, and do not listen to music for the second test.

Correct! Your main independent variable is the presence or absence of music, and you are examining this across different age groups.

Does that mean that my experiment is not fair enough?

No, your experiment is still fair. It just means that you have more comparisons than you would if you were not considering age as a factor.

Also, will the different age spans contradict my results (adults-21 to 50 years of age, young adults-13 to 20 years of age, children-8 to 12 years of age)? Will a judge question or disagree with these age groups because the age spans are not consistent (or something along the lines of that)?

I do not think that these age groups are invalid. If you think about human development, these age groups are very relevant. As long as you have your reasons for dividing your subjects into these groups, then you can answer a judge's questions. It may help to do a little background research to support your choice of age groups; but the groups are your choice!

Also, how can this project be used to consider societal/economical implications? I think that this project enables us, human beings, to fully understand our strengths and discover our true potential; this project acknowleges our strengths and weaknesses. It enables us to realize how to teach ourselves and how to learn, as well. I guess I will have to do more research.

I agree that research will help you with this part of your project. Here are a couple links to scientific articles examining test-taking and distraction. (I searched "test-taking and distraction" in Google Scholar.)
This one found no differences with or without music:
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom ... o=EJ080500
This one talks a bit about test axiety, which can relate your project to some social and educational issues:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi- ... 1&SRETRY=0

Lastly, in my procedure, should I include the part where you have to calculate the total average score and timing for each of the age groups?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. If you are wondering whether you should include in your procedure ("Methods") the fact that you calculated total average score and timing for each age group, then my answer is yes. You do not need to explain how to caculate an average, but you should let the judges know that you used averages to compare performance among your groups.

I hope that helps.

Heather

Thanks.

I also had another urgent question pertaining to my graphs. Due to the lack of children volunteers, I am now only comparing the affects of multitasking between young adults and adults. I'll describe my graph:

Title: A Comparison Between the Total Number of Questions Answered Correctly and the Average Total Timings of All the Age Categories
X-axis:Tests ("Noisy" and "Quiet")
Y-axis:Number of Questions Answered Correctly (out of 33) and Timings (minutes)
Info.:

Age Category Average Total Scores (Number of Questions Answered Correctly out of 33) Average Total Timings (minutes)
Adults (21 to 50 Years of Age) [/b] Test #1: 29.9 36.3
Test #2: 30.4 31.3
Young Adults (13 to 20 Years of Age) Test #1: 28 51.1
Test #2: 29.2 50.5

I plotted these points on the graph, and connected a line through the points. For instance, wtih Microsoft Excel, I plotted 29.9 and 28 to form one line. Then, I plotted 30.4 and 29.2 to form another line. I did this to see if one line showed more of a decrease; I interpreted this as the test which showed that more mistakes were evident (which was Test #1- the "Noisy" test). On the same graph, I compared the timings by plotting the points in the same way I plotted the points to form the first two lines. I found that the Average Total Timings for Test #2 ("quiet" test) formed a steeper line, and the Average Total Timings for Test #1 ("noisy" test) formed a line that extended over a steady increase. Does this mean that Test #2 required less time to complete? Did I even do this right?

Please help me soon, I'm very confused.
Thank you very much.

Hi SciFi1,

Thank you for sharing your data. I think I can help you with your graph.

Title: A Comparison Between the Total Number of Questions Answered Correctly and the Average Total Timings of All the Age Categories

This is a nice title. One minor point, though: since you only have two age categories now, you are comparing "Both," not "All."

X-axis:Tests ("Noisy" and "Quiet")
Y-axis:Number of Questions Answered Correctly (out of 33) and Timings (minutes)

This is the best way to present your data. The main independent variable (test condition) is your x axis, and the dependent variables (the things you measured) are shown on the y axis. Excellent!

Adults (21 to 50 Years of Age) Test #1: 29.9 36.3
Test #2: 30.4 31.3
Young Adults (13 to 20 Years of Age) Test #1: 28 51.1
Test #2: 29.2 50.5

Now for the presentation.

I plotted these points on the graph, and connected a line through the points. For instance, wtih Microsoft Excel, I plotted 29.9 and 28 to form one line. Then, I plotted 30.4 and 29.2 to form another line. I did this to see if one line showed more of a decrease; I interpreted this as the test which showed that more mistakes were evident (which was Test #1- the "Noisy" test). On the same graph, I compared the timings by plotting the points in the same way I plotted the points to form the first two lines. I found that the Average Total Timings for Test #2 ("quiet" test) formed a steeper line, and the Average Total Timings for Test #1 ("noisy" test) formed a line that extended over a steady increase. Does this mean that Test #2 required less time to complete? Did I even do this right?

You have presented your data in an interesting way. However, line graphs are usually used for what we call continuous variables. Continuous variables are things that change in a continuous way, usually numerically. For example, time and temperature are continuous variables. Your independent variable, however, is what we call a categorical variable. You have two categories: noisy and quiet. There is no real "distance" between them, so the slope of your lines are artificial - they depend on how far apart Excel graphed your categories.

The better way to present your data would be to create a grouped bar graph. Here's what I mean. You will still have "noisy" and "quiet" as your categories on the x axis. You will still graph number of questions answered correctly and test timings, but these will be shown as vertical bars (the height of which will correspond to the values). You can use colors to distinguish among your independent variables. For example, blue can be for number of questions and red can be for time. Light blue and red can be for your young adults, and dark blue and red can be for your adults. This will show, in one graph, everything that you are trying to show. Excel should be able to create a graph like this for you, but please let me know if you have trouble, and I will help you figure out how to do this in Excel.

On the same graph, I compared the timings by plotting the points in the same way I plotted the points to form the first two lines. I found that the Average Total Timings for Test #2 ("quiet" test) formed a steeper line, and the Average Total Timings for Test #1 ("noisy" test) formed a line that extended over a steady increase. Does this mean that Test #2 required less time to complete? Did I even do this right?

What you're trying to do here is say something about whether your results are significant. This is a special term used in statistics to describe whether scientific results could be the result of chance, or whether there is a true difference. Here is a link to a Wikipedia article explaining statistical signifiance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance To be able to say whether the differences you saw were significant, you can perform a simple statistical test called a Student's t-test. Here is a link to a Wikipedia article explaining Student's t-test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-test

Excel can perform a t-test for you, if you have the Data Analysis Tool Pack installed. (You may need your Microsoft Office CD to install the tool pack, but it does come as a standard "add-in" with Office). You would perform one t-test for each comparison. According to your data, you have four comparisons between your noisy vs. quiet tests: (1) # Questions correct for adults, (2) Timings for adults, (3) # Questions correct for young adults, and (4) Timings for young adults. To perform a t-test in Excel, arrange your original data (not the averages) into columns: one column from the "noisy" test, and one column from the "quiet" test. Select two columns at a time, for each of your four comparisons. From the Excel menu, select "Tools" and then "Data Analysis..." Because you used the same people for your noisy and quiet tests, you will use a "paired t-test." Excel will give you a table with a lot of information. The information you are most interested in is the P value (two-tailed). If this value is less than 0.05, then your results are considered statistically significant. If the P value is greater than 0.05, then your results are not considered statistically significant. However, you can still say that you observed a distinct trend towards fewer questions correct and longer timings for the noisy test in both age groups. I have suggested that you look at the "two-tailed" P value, because it is more conservative. However, if you originally predicted that you would see fewer questions correct and longer timings for your noisy test, you could use the "one-tailed" P value instead, which is a bit more likely to be significant.

I hope that helps. Don't hesitate to post again if you need more help!

Best,
Heather

I have one question about your procedure... did the same people take the same test twice (once with noise, once without)? Or did they take similar (but different) tests? Because I think most people would do better the second time they would take the same test... this is what I meant when I said you should not retest the children and it being unfair.


Louise

Unfortunately, I do not own the CD that will install the tool pack for me. However, I created a graph with your suggestions about the colour-coding. Regarding the t-test, I stated in my conclusions that there was a significant difference in the total average timings between the two age groups. In order to conclude this, I subtracted the total average timings it took for each of the groups to complete each of the tests (e.g. Adults:
Test #1- total average time: 36.3
Test #2-total average time:31.3
36.3-31.3=5 minutes
Young adults: Test#1-total average time:51.1, Test #2 -total average time: 50.5
51.1-50.5=0.6 (less than a minute. Is it considered 60 seconds?)
With these differences, I compared the two age groups, and found the significant difference. Is this method the correct alternative? Inform me soon.

Thanks for your help.

I have one question about your procedure... did the same people take the same test twice (once with noise, once without)? Or did they take similar (but different) tests? Because I think most people would do better the second time they would take the same test... this is what I meant when I said you should not retest the children and it being unfair.


Louise

The same people took similar tests, but different, tests.

Thanks for your help, as well.

Hi SciFi1,

I'm glad you were able to make your graph.

Regarding the t-test, I stated in my conclusions that there was a significant difference in the total average timings between the two age groups. In order to conclude this, I subtracted the total average timings it took for each of the groups to complete each of the tests (e.g. Adults:
Test #1- total average time: 36.3
Test #2-total average time:31.3
36.3-31.3=5 minutes
Young adults: Test#1-total average time:51.1, Test #2 -total average time: 50.5
51.1-50.5=0.6 (less than a minute. Is it considered 60 seconds?)
With these differences, I compared the two age groups, and found the significant difference.

To be totally correct, you cannot say that you found a "significant" difference unless you did some statistics. The word "significant" has a special meaning in science, and is used to indicate that you did the statistics. That said, you do have an interesting difference that you found, particularly since the difference is more pronounced in adults compared to young adults. Just say that you found a difference, and avoid using the word "significant."

By the way, 0.6 is 6/10 of a minute. There are sixty seconds in one minute, so 1/10 of a minute would be six seconds. That means 6/10 of a minute is 6x6, or 36 seconds.

Best of luck!
Heather

Wow, 36 seconds! Okay, thanks for your help!

I have one question about your procedure... did the same people take the same test twice (once with noise, once without)? Or did they take similar (but different) tests? Because I think most people would do better the second time they would take the same test... this is what I meant when I said you should not retest the children and it being unfair.


Louise

The same people took similar tests, but different, tests.

Thanks for your help, as well. [/quote]

Cool. Make sure you specific this clearly in your procedure on your board, and mention it to the judges. It is a key detail. Glad you got your graphs to work out. Good luck at the fair!

Louise

Once again, thanks for your help. However, I am still greatly preturbed about this one question - how can my investigation add significantly to what is known about the topic? From my research, I found many articles in which the scientists had already discovered that multitasking is, in fact, very inefficient and dangerous to our health. I know that with this project, I will be able to prove this, and educate many people about this discovery. The problem is, however, how do I impress the judges when they already know about the effect of multitasking on the brain? Will they actually be impressed with my project? I feel that this is a very interesting topic with interesting results. Yet, I feel intimidated by other projects that are very well done, and more relevant toward scientific research (i.e. projects on osteoperosis). Please inform me on how to impress the judges with my topic; I will genuinely appreciate your suggestions. I will also perform further research.
Thank you.

SciFi1 wrote:Once again, thanks for your help. However, I am still greatly preturbed about this one question - how can my investigation add significantly to what is known about the topic? From my research, I found many articles in which the scientists had already discovered that multitasking is, in fact, very inefficient and dangerous to our health. I know that with this project, I will be able to prove this, and educate many people about this discovery. The problem is, however, how do I impress the judges when they already know about the effect of multitasking on the brain? Will they actually be impressed with my project? I feel that this is a very interesting topic with interesting results. Yet, I feel intimidated by other projects that are very well done, and more relevant toward scientific research (i.e. projects on osteoperosis). Please inform me on how to impress the judges with my topic; I will genuinely appreciate your suggestions. I will also perform further research.
Thank you.

Well, while this may be "well known", it certainly isn't well followed. How many times do you try to multi-task? How many times have you seen your classmates watch tv/listen to music and do homework? In fact, based on the number of people I see doing things while talking on a cell phone, I'd say multitasking has increased dramatically in the last few years. And your project shows that even a relatively simple task is impaired by a relatively benign distraction (music).

It appears, based on your small study that the younger students are better able to handle mutlitasking (since the difference in times was very small, and perhaps not even significant). Note: there are other explainations for your results. However, your study is suggestive that age and multitasking might be linked. You could think about future work to test this hypothesis, and mention these plans to the judges. You would probably need a larger sample.

Also, as a judge, I would ask why the adults only needed 35 minutes for the test and the student 50 minutes? Both groups got similar numbers of problems correct (adults did slightly better) I would guess 13-20 and 20-50 should both be able to do simple arthimetic. (This suggests another hypothesis for your results- the adults found the test so easy they were bored and the students found it too hard and really focused hard.)


Louise

Hi SciFi1,

You did indeed do a very interesting project, and I think the judges will agree!

That said, Louise gave you some very good advice about how to relate your study to issues of multitasking. Note that California recently passed a law about using a cell phone while driving, because of that very issue!

The age issue is very interesting as well. Perhaps the younger adults, growing up in a society of cell phones and iPods, are used to working with multiple distractions. Perhaps they do homework while listening to music or watching TV. However, Louise's point about the time difference between young adults and adults is also very important. While the time difference between tests was smaller for young adults compared to older adults, the overall test time was quite a bit longer. Are the older adults better at simple math overall? Do the younger adults rely too much on cacluators for simple math? You can discuss some of these questions.

Also, don't forget the article I gave you about test anxiety and distraction. Test anxiety is a very real problem that has social and educational issues. Many students have problems with standardized tests (which usually feature simple math, like your test) because of test anxiety and distraction. And we all know that poor SAT scores can cause problems for college applications!

I think you have plenty to impress the judges. You did a well thought-out study with interesting results. So go wow them!

Cheers,
Heather

Thanks for your suggestions. I will also research some more about this issue.

What is communications science? Also, is my project related to the natural sciences?

Please inform me.

Thank you for your help.

I would say your project fits in the social sciences category. Is that an option? I assume you're trying to decide what category your project fits in? Can you list all the categories for us so we can help you better? I'm not quite sure what's meant by communications science--I could see it being either engineering/technology or more of a social sciences thing. You should probably ask your teacher what they mean by it, because they can give you a better answer than we can.

"...communications science--I could see it being either engineering/technology..."
I think this is what communications science is, as well
"I would say your project fits in the social sciences category. Is that an option? ...Can you list all the categories for us so we can help you better?..." According to my knowledge, I don't think that the science fair in which I am participating in has a distinct social sciences category. The categories are listed below:

Health Sciences-I think that my project belongs in this category.
Life Sciences
Biotechnology
Physical and Mathematical Sciences
Engineering and Computing Sciences, and
Earth and Environmental Sciences

Do you think that my project is related to the natural sciences? I wish to know this so that I can apply for awards that are related to the natural sciences.

Please inform me, soon.

Thank you for your insights!

Hi SciFi1,

Thanks for giving us the categories. That helps!

I think, of the categories listed, that your project fits best into Life Sciences. Although you could make an argument for Health Sciences, that is usually something to do with medicine rather than test-taking and psychological distraction. I agree with MelissaB that it is really a social science project, but that can usually be lumped with Life Sciences.

I hope that helps you.
Heather

I registered my project into the Health Sciences category because my teacher told me that it is related to the brain; projects related to the brain are usually considered to be related to the Health Sciences. In contrast to this, I do agree with your statement. Most of the projects in this category are related to diseases and medicine. In addition, my teacher assured me that if my project was in the wrong category, the science fair commitee will replace it. However, I think that this will not happen. As of now, I cannot change my registration forms, either.

Also, do you think that my project is related to the natural sciences? I wish to know this so that I can apply for awards that are related to the natural sciences.

Thanks for your help.

SciFi1 wrote:I registered my project into the Health Sciences category because my teacher told me that it is related to the brain

I agree with the other experts that life sciences would be a good fit, but your teachers advice is also reasonable. The various disciplines of science do have a lot of overlap.

SciFi1 wrote:Also, do you think that my project is related to the natural sciences? I wish to know this so that I can apply for awards that are related to the natural sciences.

It would say it is not closely related, but others may see it differently and it never hurts to apply for awards if you have the time.

Thank you.

Can you explain to me how this project relates to some scientific principle?

Hi SciFi1,

Can you explain to me how this project relates to some scientific principle?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "scientific principle." Usually, a project does test or examine some scientific principle. In your case, you were examining the effects of distraction on test taking performance. If you want to relate this to a specific principle, try looking through your background research.

From my research, I found many articles in which the scientists had already discovered that multitasking is, in fact, very inefficient and dangerous to our health. I know that with this project, I will be able to prove this, and educate many people about this discovery.

Notice that, in your background research, you found a scientific principle that your project supports. Is that what you were looking for?

Hope that helps.

Heather

"Understanding executive mental control may help solve "fundamental problems," says Meyer, "associated with the design of equipment and human-computer interfaces for vehicle and aircraft operation, air traffic control, and many other activities in which people must monitor and manipulate the environment through technologically advanced devices." The research may also aid in personnel selection (given individual differences in executive control), training, assessment and diagnosis of brain-damaged patients (given advances in brain imaging and mapping), rehabilitation..."

What does this passage mean by "fundamental problems?" What is it referring to? In this passage, what are the issues that are being addressed, with regards to the inefficiency of multitasking?

Thank you, I greatly appreciate your help.

"Understanding executive mental control may help solve "fundamental problems," says Meyer, "associated with the design of equipment and human-computer interfaces for vehicle and aircraft operation, air traffic control, and many other activities in which people must monitor and manipulate the environment through technologically advanced devices." The research may also aid in personnel selection (given individual differences in executive control), training, assessment and diagnosis of brain-damaged patients (given advances in brain imaging and mapping), rehabilitation..."

What does this passage mean by "fundamental problems?" What is it referring to? In this passage, what are the issues that are being addressed, with regards to the inefficiency of multitasking?

Could you please provide the full passage or reference? I'm not sure I can help you using just the quote you provided.

Cheers,
Heather

http://www.apa.org/releases/multitasking.html

"Understanding executive mental control may help solve "fundamental problems," says Meyer, "associated with the design of equipment and human-computer interfaces for vehicle and aircraft operation, air traffic control, and many other activities in which people must monitor and manipulate the environment through technologically advanced devices." The research may also aid in personnel selection (given individual differences in executive control), training, assessment and diagnosis of brain-damaged patients (given advances in brain imaging and mapping), rehabilitation..."

What does this passage mean by "fundamental problems?" What is it referring to? In this passage, what are the issues that are being addressed, with regards to the inefficiency of multitasking?

It looks as if Meyer (the person quoted) thinks that new technology is becoming too complicated. For example, there may be too many gauges and buttons on a car dashboard or in an aircraft cockpit. The article you read demonstrated that switching tasks takes time for the brain to adjust, and this time could mean the difference between avoiding an obstacle while driving or hitting that obstacle (for example).

I suggest that you make an outline of the article you read, so you can determine for yourself what issues are being addressed.

Really, your best bet is to read the scientific article on which your passage was based. It's available on-line for free: http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/xhp274763.pdf

Cheers,
Heather