Science Buddies: "Ask an Expert"

Hi, Im in the 11th grade...
For my science project, I am thinking of magnatizing water..
But, I dont know how to do the experiment!!
Can anyone help me?? plzzz

binsuabraham,

This sounds like a very interesting topic. I don't think I have ever helped someone who wanted to magnetize water. Very original!

To get started, I would suggest doing a search on Google or answers.com using the words "magnetism" and "water." Try to find out why certain things are magnetic and why others are not. You library is also a great place to go to do some research. Look in encyclopedias and other kinds of books.

Do some poking around in your library and online and let me know what you find out. After doing your research, let me know how you think you could make water magnetic? Then we can talk about this more.

Looking forward to your ideas!

Terik Daly wrote:binsuabraham,

This sounds like a very interesting topic. I don't think I have ever helped someone who wanted to magnetize water. Very original!

To get started, I would suggest doing a search on Google or answers.com using the words "magnetism" and "water." Try to find out why certain things are magnetic and why others are not. You library is also a great place to go to do some research. Look in encyclopedias and other kinds of books.

Do some poking around in your library and online and let me know what you find out. After doing your research, let me know how you think you could make water magnetic? Then we can talk about this more.

Looking forward to your ideas!

While I agree with Terik's suggest to do some research, I recmmend that you be very careful with the results of your web search. Beware of sites trying to sell you stuff, and beware of sites making remarkable claims. Look for sites that use the scientific method to support their claims. Do they have a testible hypothesis? Is the data repeatable?


Louise

You can't permanently magnetize any fluid.

By definitition, a permanent magnet is composed of a substance where there is a statistically significant number of magnetic dipoles oriented in the same direction so as to produce a net magnetic field.

Water is a polar molecule so in theory one can cause this kind of an orientation.

The earth's magnetic field is insufficient to cause sufficient oreientations to be measurable.

It might be interesting to try and freeze a small volume of water while applying a very strong magnetic field and seeing if the resulting ice has semi-permanent magnetic properties.

Figuring out how much magnetic force is required to get some percentage of orientation is a starting point of a feasibility study. This is going to take some molecular modeling and a significant understanding of molecular forces and magnetic forces.

Even if you can accomplish this, finding a way to show ice magnets at an actual science fair is yet another challenge and without actually being able to demonstrate them, you are going to have a lot of skeptics.

There will be very few Science Fair judges who will be able to comprehend your calculations so being able to demonstrate the existence of a magnetic field using a compass or coil / microamp meter in person will be VERY important.

also...Terik and Louise do have good points...but remember...Answers.com is wikipedia in disguise...all the information on answers.com is taken from wikipedia which is considered nothing on a bibliography and is very debatable because anybody can write almost anything on wikipedia.org. I would try to use encyclopedias like worldbookonline, encarta, or any other "well-known" encyclopedia.

I have also recommended another research form, contact local Junior college instructors or college professors and see if they would like to help you out...many Junior college instructors do not have their doctorate or PHD so they need a lot of research, back-up, and studies in their dissertation. I have heard of many students in science fairs using JC instructors and doing a "co-op" with them by gearing their science fair projects around what the instructor's dissertation...it works both ways because the instructor has a good 4-6 years of knowledge in that select area and gives your project some recognition. You can also mention that your project was part of a dissertation.

I dont know what to use as variables, contol..etc for my experiment

It is rather difficult to discuss what your variables and controls are without knowing what your question and hypothesis is. Can you post back with your question and hypothesis? It would be nice if you included a description of exactly how you plan to do your experiment. The more information you give us about your project, the better we can help you!

Looking forward to your question and hypothesis!

Actually, that is my problem...I just know the info on magnatized water...I dont know how to use that info for an experiment...
I just know that mag. water can be used to heal fevers etc...

I guess my hypothesis will be : "Stronger magnetized water increases the solubility of minerals which therefore improves the transfer of nutrients to all parts of the body, making the organism work more efficiently".
OR
"Reduced surface tension of magnetically treated water facilitates its penetration of cell walls, which could accelerate the normal dividing of the cells in growing parts of living individuals. "

This is just a base of my hypothesis...

I searched Google for "magenetized water" and you might be interested in the first hit: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magwatscams.html

I think your first hypothesis may be easier to test. But, the statement you have listed is really three hypostheses:
1) Magnetizing water increases mineral solubility.
2) When more minerals are dissolved in drinking water, those minerals are more efficiently transferred around the body.
3) This improved mineral transfer makes the organism work more efficiently (and you'd have to define what "more efficiently" actually means in a testable way).

You could perhaps test #1 by seeing how much you could dissolve in "magnetized" vs untreated water--you'd have to start with distilled water so you know no minerals are dissolved in it to begin with.

Hi
I also did a Google search and here's an article that talks about the healing properties of magnetized water:
http://www.drlam.com/opinion/magnetized_water.cfm
This website also gives a tip on how to actually magnetize water so that might be helpful. It sounds like an interesting topic, good luck!

staryl13 wrote:Hi
I also did a Google search and here's an article that talks about the healing properties of magnetized water:
http://www.drlam.com/opinion/magnetized_water.cfm
This website also gives a tip on how to actually magnetize water so that might be helpful. It sounds like an interesting topic, good luck!

Thanks for the link, and I appreciate that you are trying to help! However, it isimportant to make sure that sources you use for science fair projects follow the scientific method and contain facts. If you'll look, in the link you gave, this article is listed as an opinion. There is only one citation provided, and you'll notice it is for the least amazing claim (using magnetic fields to clean water by removing solids). Even that is described improperly, removing impurities from water _decreases_ conductivity. There are many other errors in this link, which I won't refute, unless you really want me to.

I would like to point out two statements that are warnings that the information in here is not scientific.

Although we can measure the power of a magnet, we have no method of measuring the degree of magnetization of water.

If it isn't measurable, it isn't testable and thus not science. We actually can measure the mangetic properties of anything. However, as Craig points out above, you cannot permanently magentize water, so this reading would be zero.

Those in mainstream medicine may discount magnetized water as "quackery". Those in the forefront of magnetic research paints a different story.

Okay, dismissing a whole group of scientists is a big warning flag. Citing "those in the forefront of magnetic research" is also troubling. If there are a bunch of experts claiming this, then why aren't they listed? Why aren't there results included here? Without proof these experts exist, and evidence there research supports the extraordinary claims made about water, this statement is meaningless.

I really recommend you review the scientific method described in the sciencebuddies guide. then, look at this site again. See how many errors you can find. See how many time bad logic is used. Be skeptical. If you have a specific question, feel free to post back. I'm not going to debate magnetic water with you, but I will help you to understand why this information is not scientific.

Louise

As Louse warned, most scientists and science fair judges will give thumbs-down on a project that deals with non-scientific concepts such as "magetized water". If you want to pursue something related to this topic for a science fair, it will be very important to design the experiment scientifically and objectively. There are aspects of the theories about magnetic effects on human health that are testable. For example, once could test whether a magnetic field increases the solubility of certain minerals.

For example, here is an abstract from a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Influence of magnetic field on calcium carbonate precipitation
Journal: Desalination
Volume 206, Issues 1-3, 5 February 2007, Pages 163-168
EuroMed 2006 - Conference on Desalination Strategies in South Mediterranean Countries
Fathi Alimia, Mohamed Tlilia, Mohamed Ben Amora, Claude Gabriellib and George Maurinb
Abstract
Effect of permanent magnetic field with north and south faces facing each other (0.16 T) on calcium carbonate precipitation type (homogeneous and heterogeneous) and solubility were investigated in different conditions of calcium carbonate water concentration, treatment-pH and water flow rate in the magnetic field. Treated water was exposed to a scaling test by degasifying dissolved CO2 in water. It was found that magnetic treatment increases the total amount of precipitate and favours the homogeneous nucleation depending on water treatment-pH, water flow rate and the residence time.

ChrisG wrote:As Louse warned, most scientists and science fair judges will give thumbs-down on a project that deals with non-scientific concepts such as "magetized water". If you want to pursue something related to this topic for a science fair, it will be very important to design the experiment scientifically and objectively. There are aspects of the theories about magnetic effects on human health that are testable. For example, once could test whether a magnetic field increases the solubility of certain minerals.

For example, here is an abstract from a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Influence of magnetic field on calcium carbonate precipitation
Journal: Desalination
Volume 206, Issues 1-3, 5 February 2007, Pages 163-168
EuroMed 2006 - Conference on Desalination Strategies in South Mediterranean Countries
Fathi Alimia, Mohamed Tlilia, Mohamed Ben Amora, Claude Gabriellib and George Maurinb
Abstract
Effect of permanent magnetic field with north and south faces facing each other (0.16 T) on calcium carbonate precipitation type (homogeneous and heterogeneous) and solubility were investigated in different conditions of calcium carbonate water concentration, treatment-pH and water flow rate in the magnetic field. Treated water was exposed to a scaling test by degasifying dissolved CO2 in water. It was found that magnetic treatment increases the total amount of precipitate and favours the homogeneous nucleation depending on water treatment-pH, water flow rate and the residence time.

If you do something like this, just make sure you understand clear what you are testing. While the experiment cited above involved magnets and water, it is not magnetizing water, nor does the magnetic aspect influence human health. The mineral content of the water is the important part.

Louise

Yes, I think we experts have made this point clear: You would be focusing on the scientific elements that have come up in discussion, such as testing "whether a magnetic field increases the solubility of certain minerals". You would be avoiding topics that cannot be answered scientifically.