Science Buddies: "Ask an Expert"

hi, it's joker medna again, i was planning on doing alternative energy sources,but I've thought of doing the Ranque-Hilsch Vortex Tube, but like my old idea, i am trying to find how to save energy using a vortex tube, let me explain, as some of you might know, compressed air is measured BAR or PSIG, so i am trying to find out what is the lowest BAR or PSIG i can use for the vortex tube, i want to find out so i can choose between alternative energy sources or this, thank you

I'm fairly certain that the Hilsch tube is inefficient. They were (are?) used on trains because compressed air was available. A good project might be to measure its comparative efficiency. Power used by air compressor compared with power used by small (window) air conditioner (which I'm certain will cool the room better).

Thank you for suggestion,but it seems that a guy called Dave Williams, was almost sure that he was able to make ice in third world countries using the vortex tube,although your idea is good, i still haven't got the information i need which is the lowest BAR or PSIG a vortex tube can use to work, as i know this is a rare topic, and i have no clue why anybody would know the answer, but i am really depending on this website, thanks again paulsdecarli.

Hi Joker medna,

Here are some resources that you can use. These may have the answer to your question:

If pose "what is the lowest BAR or PSIG for a vortex tube" to answers.com you'll get back eight sites that may have your answer. (I didn't read through them, and leave that to you.)


On http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Pri ... +Works.htm
you'll get the normal range for vortex tubes, 80-100 PSIG (5.9 - 6.5 BAR), so the lowest PSIG is not named just the normal.

Posing just "vortex tube" to answer.com, gives a good display of definitions and an integrated version of the wikipedia entry for vortex tubes,

paulsdecarli, You were correct. The wikipedia entry includes the following:
"Vortex tubes have lower efficiency than traditional air conditioning equipment." It then goes on and states were vortex tubes are used: "inexpensive spot cooling, when compressed air is available."

Hi Joker Medna,
I think you are referring to this Dave Williams:
"Dave Williams, of Engineers Without Borders, has proposed using vortex tubes to make ice in third-world countries. Although the technique is inefficient, Williams expressed hope that vortex tubes could yield helpful results in areas where using electricity to create ice is not an option."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube

With respect to your proposed topic ("how to save energy using a vortex tube") the key words from that previous quote are "Although the technique is inefficient...". As Paul Descarli said, this is not a technology that is likely to yield an energy savings. Dave William's interest is apparently to use it in places where electricity is not already available, and not to use it as an energy saving device.

I don't have any information on the minimum pressure requirements for such a device. I expect that you might be able to find some info by searching the web for "Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube" and possibly by contacting a specialist who has worked with these devices.

Good luck! It sounds like a very interesting project.

Chris

Hi Joker Medna,

ChrisG wrote:Hi Joker Medna,
I don't have any information on the minimum pressure requirements for such a device. I expect that you might be able to find some info by searching the web for "Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube" and possibly by contacting a specialist who has worked with these devices.
Chris

In an earlier post, I referred to the Exair corporation and the webpage:
http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Pri ... +Works.htm

On that page, there is a link to "Chat Live with an Engineer." Following ChrisG's advice, I submitted the minimum question to an engineer at Exair and received the following response:

"You must have 1 bar or greater pressure to operate the vortex tube. The higher the pressure the faster the vortex will spin and the greater the temperature separation."

The above is from Joe Panfalone, an engineer at Exair. If you need any clarification, Joe welcomes it: "Any comments or suggestions, please let me know!" Joe's email address is [email protected], and his phone number is 1-800-903-9247 (USA & Canada).

If you decide to phone Joe, remember the time zone difference (Joe is in the Eastern time zone.). Joe knows that my query was from science buddies. If you have any calms speaking to or emailing with Joe, please say so, and I'll communicate with him, since we already have a dialogue started. If you have any questions, however, I think it's best that you communicate directly with Joe, since then you'll be able to ask follow-up questions. In any case (phone or email), please summarize what you find out via a posting on the board. Then others will have access to the data. Thanks.

Thanks for the nice follow-up, Dave. I cross posted with you earlier and didn't see that link or your post until after I submitted my reply.

Thank you all very much ,i have decided to stick to the vortex tube.

Oh and i really appreciate your time and efforts,especially davidkallman,thanks again and wish me luck

Hi Joker medna,

It's great that you have selected your project! Good luck doing the project, and please let us know what you find.

I'm glad to be of service! Thanks for your kind words; you're welcome.