Science Buddies: "Ask an Expert"

I'm a 9th grader doing a research paper and science fair project on How permanent are Permanent Markers. I think I know how to procede with the experiment part (different solvents, different materials, etc) but I have NO clue on how to write a research paper on this! We have to have 7 sources (cannot include wikipedia) and since I think most of the data will come after I do the experiment.. I don't know what to do or look for in the research paper part. I read the links you have abt research papers... but I guess I'm not sure what I should be "researching". I also want to bring it up a notch, since I now see that middle school kids have done this as a profect, and I'm a high schooler. Can anyone help me, please?

Hi!
This is definitely a concern for lots of high school students! I would definitely look at the Science Buddies website on how to write a standard research paper. These are general guidelines which you can always tweak in order to satisfy your teacher's/science fair's needs.
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... aper.shtml
That said, I would start looking into literature searches about the solvents which are actually found in permanent makers (in essence, the constituent parts which make it permanent). These include xylene (commonly used in laboratory cleaning), toluene, and alcohol. You should also look up the polymers within permanent marker and their adhesive properties. Finally, you can look into the dyes and other substances which are used to produce different colors in such markers. Hope this helps!!

One comment I'll make is that it's typical not to allow using Wikipedia (or any encyclopedia) as a source, but that doesn't mean it's useless. Very often you can get extremely helpful information, and most articles have bibliographic references to *actual* primary sources that you *can* use. Just use that kind of reference as a starting point instead of a final resource.

I agree with Ray. It's always bettre to use the original source. I have used MLA style for most of my references. You can check this out at http://www.mla.org/
The scientific resaerch paper is 18-20 pages (Doube spaced) in length and it should include: Introduction and Objective of the project- This will include your literature review
It should then list all Materials and Methods you used to perform the experiment.
Then it should list the Results of your experiment- This will include tables and graphs.
This is followed by Discussions and then Conclusions.) Conclusion should ideally include Future research ideas.
In the end you should include all References cited. You can cite internet references too ( Not too many though) but please make sure you follow the format.
You can start your search with Wikipedia if you want but then try to get hold of the article by the author cited in wiki and go on from there.
Good luck

Sumit

Hi - You might find this Science Buddies' project idea helpful:

Paper Chromatography: Basic Version
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p008.shtml
Objective: "The objective of this project is to use paper chromatography to analyze ink components in permanent black markers."

Amy
Science Buddies

Hi,

I agree with all the help you've been given. As a science research teacher all I'll add is this:

1. break the paper up into parts and write them one section at a time. I usually advise my students to begin with the procedure because they know what they did and why they did it. Then we move onto the results - put tables in. Add captions. Highlight in the table and text the data points or trends that are important. Then move to discussion, what does this data suggest? imply? show? or demonstrate to you. Make sure to add future study into this section. Now you're ready to write the introduction. Look at all your tests and findings. Make sure you introduce the reader to everything they may need to know to fully understand your project.

Hope this helps, Mrs. Mary Lou O'Donnell

You all have been so helpful! Thank you! I did my report and received a 98 on it!! Currently.... I have conducted my experiment and am working on collecting the data for the science fair. Now I have a BIG problem!! I was calculating the retention factor of the permanent ink by calculating the ratio of the distance traveled of the ink to the distance traveled by the solvent. But..... in most instances, they traveled the same distance! Where the ink traveled little...so did the solvent. I don't know what that means!! Some strips have the color from then ink at the top of the strip (along with the solvent).... and nothing in the middle of the chromatography strip. Now, I am all confused!!! Any ideas of what is going on???

Not too sure how to post this. You all have been so helpful in your advise for my research paper! Thank you! I did my report and received a 98 on it!! Currently.... I have conducted my experiment with black permanent markers and chromatography to determine which ones are more permanent, and am working on collecting the data for the science fair. Now I have a BIG problem!! I was calculating the retention factor of the permanent ink by calculating the ratio of the distance traveled of the ink to the distance traveled by the solvent. But..... in most instances, they traveled the same distance! Where the ink traveled little...so did the solvent, and appeared to stop at the same place. I don't know what that means!! Some of my chromatography strips have very faint color from the ink at the top of the strip (along with the solvent).... and nothing in the middle of the chromatography strip. Now, I am all confused!!! Any ideas of what is going on??? Thank you for ANY help you can give!!!!

Hi,

If the sample moves the same distance as the solvent front (Rf = 1) then the sample is too soluble in that solvent. My guess is that you have tried only one elution solvent. If you are testing permanent markers, my guess is you are using a nonpolar solvent like alcohol, as permanent markers dyes are usually not soluble in water, or they would not be “permanent”. The solution to your problem is to experiment with different solvents. If you had been using alcohol, you could try a 1:1 mix of alcohol and water, or pure water. My guess is the dye won’t move at all if pure water is used, but should move some with a 1:1 mixture. You can also use other solvents, such as acetone, vinegar, or other solvents, see this link for ideas:

https://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentorin ... rces.shtml

For best results you want to find a solvent that causes the dye to have an Rf around 0.5. Hopefully the marker you are testing will show several different color dyes with different Rf values. If it does not, you probably should try a different brand of marker as a sample.

Hope this helps. Have fun with the project!

Best regards,

Barrett L. Tomlinson

Hi,

Please keep all your posts related to a single project in one thread. It makes it much easier for experts to understand your project and problems!

Best regards,

Barrett L. Tomlinson

Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. That makes sense. I actually did the experiment with 5 different solvents already- water, hydrogen peroxide, sour milk, isopropal alcohol, and vinegar. I'm testing acetone tomorrow - can't wait!! I really want to show which brand of the 3 permanent markers tested is the "most permanent" in each of the different solutions.

In the water: there was no color on my strip until abt 6" from the marker source - but it's very faint and this is also where the solvent stopped. Same for all 3 markers using water. So my Rf factor is 1, I think.

In the Vinegar: one had purple near the marker...then nothing til abt 5" away. I'm guessing I get 2 Rf factors - one for each color even though most of the strip is white?

The isopropal alcohol was the most dramatic with the color dyes actually spreading directly from the source (marker) but on all 3 the colors stopped at the same point as the solvent stopped, but I have a continuous streak of different color dyes for abt 4". I guess my Rf factor is 1 again.... but I think that since the most color moved with the alcohol, even though it didn't move as far as, say, the water or sour milk....that in the alcohol the markers were "less permanent". Is this right? I'm getting confused because some solvents had very little color skip many inches but have a faint color move a longer distance...but the alcohol had a long streak of dark colors....it appears that more of the dyes reacted to the alcohol than to any other solvent. Am I on the right track, or more confused?

Hi,

The goal of chromatography is to completely separate the components of the sample into discrete nonoverlapping zones so you can study each pure compound separately. If you use too much sample you get a smeared out streak of color. From your post it sounds like alcohol worked best, but that you used way too much sample(marker ink). If you used a much smaller amount of ink you should be able to get a series of different color spots or lines that do not overlap. You get a separate Rf for each separate color spot.. Ideally you want some white space between each pair of spots. It sounds like you are well on your way to getting a great experimental result. Congratulations!

I hope your project is a smashing success!

Best regards,

Barrett L. Tomlinson

Thank you!! I'll try that! Do you think I should "count" and figure out the Rf factor on those strips that, for instance in the sour milk, where the dye showed up a few inches up the strip but only faintly on the very edge of my chromatography paper and the dye did not show up anywhere in the center portion of the strip? In most of the other samples the dye moved pretty much along the center of the strips, and some spread out to the sides...but not solely showing up at the edge. I'm not sure if it is only showing up on the very edge of the strip that it is a valid reaction....maybe it's operator error, or some sample got into the solution...or something weird. Or maybe it's a valid response? I don't know. What do you think?

Let me propose an alternate explaination for your edge observations, boundary conditions!

The edge of something is a physical boundary. There is something inheritly different about the edge of something. How was the edge created or formed and how might that change some behavior or property of the material?

I suspect that if you looked at the edge of the paper with enough magnification, you would observe that the paper fibres are frayed and have more air space around them when compared to the middle of the strip. This might make the edges have a faster chromatic diffusion rate than the reset of the strip.

I'm not claiming that this is THE reason, but don't ASSUME that the results from those samples were invalid. Outlying samples always telling us something, what is usually a great question.

What do the edges on these samples look like compared to the edges of the samples where the dye moved up the middle first?

Is there anything about what was tested on those samples that might be affected by a faster chromatic diffusion rate? Could there be a reaction in what you were testing that eliminated the dye that was still occuring when you applied it to the test strip?

What method did you use to introduce the sample onto the test strip or introduce the test strip into the sample?

Often experiments create more interesting questions.