Science Buddies: "Ask an Expert"

Hello!

Currently, I'm a slight 'panic situation'. I left my science fair project for the last moment (it's due in roughly 2 months), much later than I wanted myself to focus on my project. Since I was successful at my science fair last year (I started the project during Christmas Break), I'm still hopeful if I could maintain my success.

This year, I hope to do a more advanced project. I know that due to my budget, environment and equipment limitations I will not be able to do certain projects I am passionate about - some require bacteria, some require expensive equipment which I cannot access using my resources.

A few things you should know: I've read many Science Buddies articles for Advanced Projects, including some of the blogs (although I don't qualify for ISEF,etc). I'm very keen about research - It has permitted me to narrowed my project down to three categories (Engineering, Medicine and Alternative Energy). I've been researching ideas in those fields, asking questions and finding methods/products/processes related to those subjects. I am considering redesigning a project. The purpose of my project is to create/improve an invention/process/method. A few things I am interested in include the fuel cell, biodegradable materials, illness-prevention, dentistry and chemistry.

Based on this information, it would be greatly appreciated if you can help me brainstorm some ideas, provide helpful links or advice. I would like to finalize my project idea in one week, tops. Thank you VERY MUCH for your help!

(PLEASE VIEW THIRD POST, INCLUDING MINE. IN OTHER WORDS, PLEASE READ THE SECOND POST OF MINE, THE LENGTHY ONE )

Hi,

It's really difficult to suggest a topic for you to do, but I do sympathize because selecting the topic is the hardest part of the project sometimes. I would recommend reading through all of the project ideas on the science buddies website that are related to your field of interest and selecting one that meets your time and resource requirements:

http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... l?From=Tab

For example, here are some projects that could be completed within two months:

http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... A&from=TSW

http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... A&from=TSW

http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... A&from=TSW

Remember that you want to ask a question that can be answered by doing a controlled experiment. And, even though you are short on time, do take time to do background reading on your topic as this will help you design a better experiment.

Good luck and do let us know if you have questions on the science behind your project or designing your experiment.

Donna Hardy

Thank you very much!

I have looked through most projects on Science Buddies applicable to me in my situation, already. However, thank you very much for those three interesting projects! They are very inspiring to me, and I'm sure with a little more background reading and asking questions I can finalize my experiment/product.

I was curious if there are any specific methods you recommend for me to utilize to come up with a project? For example, I was reading one of Amber Hess's articles and she described how she listed pro's and con's of possible projects (although I am still curious which resources she researched from).

Additionally, I was wondering how I could study the molecular structure of something. Again, I remember reading an article by Amber Hess and she said that if you were doing an experiment on which gum lasts longest, you should study the molecular structure of the different gums. How would you do that, would you need any special instruments?

My science equipment resource is limited to internet shopping and my father's engineering company (last year I borrowed a conductivity meter, beakers and a tube from his plant).

Once again, thanks!

Hi,

Keep reading until you have a topic that is really interesting to you, and then try to learn more about the chemistry of the subject. For example, if you do the landfill project, you might want to pick a common item in the landfill, find out what the chemical composition is and then use that as a basis to figure out how to recycle the item or to develop a biodegradable alternative. Have you thought of a question yet that you'd like to work on?


Donna Hardy

Wow, thank you for that great suggestion!

Well, I'm continuing to read more everyday. Thankfully I have finished all my school projects so I can fully focus on my science fair project. Learning the chemistry of the subject is indeed a very neat idea. That gives me an idea - I could combine two branches of science to make it interesting for me, as you said; chemistry and environmental science. I am most interested in Chemistry, Environmental Sciences/Alternative Energy, Medicine and Engineering. I could then combine environment+engineering+medicine= Engineer an Environmentally-friendly product that will aid the Medical field in some way. It may seem complicated, but could that work?

I think developing a biodegradable alternative is an excellent idea. It will incorporate environment+engineering(well..i'm making a product)+chemistry. No, I do not have a solid question (I have many, I'm trying to narrow it down). Although say I followed your suggestion - I found the chemical composition of a water bottle. Water bottles are made from plastic, and so the composition is PET. Then, I would follow steps in order to create biodegradable plastic. Finally, I could create a water bottle using the biodegradable plastic. Correct?

Thank you!

EDIT: Additionally, I was wondering how YOU guys come up with your ideas. For example, how did you generate the idea of studying the chemical composition and then producing a biodegradable option?

I think this is a great starting idea, although I would like to make it something bigger. By bigger, I mean studying the chemical composition and making the environmentally-friendly one. Then, I would like to see if I could use that biodegradable material to improve on an invention. Could I do something like that, or is it too complex?

Next, I am very drawn to the high school forums. I know that I am young, but I wish to do a more advanced project for my division. I know this will be hard, considering my limitations. Since I am looking to a more advanced project for a seventh grader, there is some wonderful inspiration there. Based on my topic interest and criteria, could you please provide me with a basic example (from Science Buddies or a rough idea from your head) project in the following topics? If needed, you can combine subjects together (eg, environmental engineering, biomedical engineering, environment+chemistry, etc.)

Topics:
Engineering
Medicine
Environmental Science
Chemistry

Here is my project criteria:
No mentor needed (although dad is intelligent mechanical engineer)
No lab access required, materials can be readily available (although I can borrow/buy equipment/material depending on price and if dad’s company or school has it)
Experiment can be done in 2 weeks MAXIMUM (preferably 10 days or less. That means I will be unable to grow plants, etc.)
Budget is less PREFERABLY less than $50 (Depending on the project, I can be a flexible)
Interesting and maybe complex, but nothing to hard for an advanced seventh grader to understand (Background Research/Reading about topic can take, at the rate of 2 hours per day, 1 week. Again, I can possibly be flexible)
Project can fully be complete by middle-end of March (I can fit in 4 hours of project time on weekends)

Lastly, I still have my original question (How can I study the Molecular Structure of something? Do I need to purchase an expensive machine? Could I do it at the comfort of my home?). In my next reply post I plan on stating a few experiments/projects that I'm interested, and if you could view them and perhaps tweak 'em up. But that's next time.

If possible, I would love opinions/help of various experts. I would feel awful if I'm leaving so much work for you, Donna! Plus, two heads are better than one Sorry for the lengthiness! Thank you SOOOO much, once again.

Hi,

Responding to your criteria of interests in Environmental Science+Chemistry + Enginereering, you may want to read this web page by Bruce Logan at the University of Pennsylvania on microbial fuel cells. Be sure to get to the bottom of the page where he features science fair projects done by students:

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/ENVE/logan/b ... e_cell.htm

Her is a Science Buddies Project writeup on the same topic:

https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p026.shtml

AS to how the Science Buddiesproject ideas get chosen, I think most ideas start from ideas that come from students like you. You can often get some idea from the Source or Credits statement located at the bottom of the project idea. Several I have seen cite award winning projects entered in Science Fairs.

Goodd luck on whatever project you decide to do.

Best Regards,

Barrett L. Tomlinson

Hi,

I really like Barrett's suggestion regarding the microbial fuel cell. It meets your interest requirements, and you could make it a unique project by using novel materials to construct the fuel cell and find an unusual source of food for the bacteria. And, there's lots of chemistry to learn in this project. The microbes produce protons and electrons, and the movement of the electrons creates electricity, which you can measure. However, this project is difficult, and it could be expensive, unless you could borrow the multimeter and find some of the electrical circuit materials at your father’s company. Also, you need access to a body of water that has an anaerobic layer at the bottom that use can use as a source of microorganisms.

Here’s another project that is slightly less difficult that might be suitable for you.

https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... Q&from=TSW

Let us know what project you decide to do, and we’ll help explain the chemistry.

Donna Hardy

Hello!

Wow, thank you so much, Donna and Barrett!

I had originally seen the microbial fuel cell articles while researching. I thought it was simply wonderful, and now how you explain the chemistry makes me even MORE inspired. After viewing the projects, I had a few questions. I tried doing research for the question, but got a bunch of scientific language.

1. What is the salt bridge used for? I looked at the following link (http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/ENVE/logan/b ... _QandA.pdf) but I'm still wondering the exact purpose of the bridge.
2. Will I need to handle/purchase bacteria?
3. When I do a Science Buddies project, I love to try the Variations. Which variation seems interesting out of the Variables (mentioned below) for the MFC project?
4. Where can I find access to the anaerobic water?

Variations
• Can you feed your bacteria and keep the fuel cell going? Try and see!
• Make a ground-food wastewater sample and test it to see how well it creates electricity. Caution: There is a possibility that you could make a dangerous strain of bacteria. Use protective hand, body, and face gear. Clean your work surfaces with a bleach solution and dispose of all materials in a safe manner. See the Science Buddies Project Guide page for more information about appropriate safety procedures.
• See if you can fabricate a mediator microbial fuel cell with baker's yeast. How much electricity can it produce? How does it compare to the microbial fuel cell detailed in the Experimental Procedure? Hint: Because yeast are not very electrochemically active, you'll need to use a mediator. Methylene blue is a good choice for a safe mediator.

Lastly, I am slightly concerned because a student two years ago used the microbial fuel cell to create electricity and methane. I would hate to copy him, or seem as if I am.

Last night I compiled a list of possibly projects and articles I seemed interested in. I know that the list is long, but it would be greatly appreciated if someone could at least skim through some of the links and give me their opinion.

PROJECTS I AM INTERESTED IN:
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... 4&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... U&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... Q&from=TSW
(My recommendation results from the Topic Selection Wizard: http://sciencebuddies.com/mentoring/rec ... zUsc2lkOjA)
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... x&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... 4&from=TSW
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... Q&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... A&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... Q&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... Q&from=TSW
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p009.shtml
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentorin ... p010.shtml
*For all the science buddies projects, I am interested in changing them up a bit so it can be more original

http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/S0523.pdf
http://www.juliantrubin.com/topicprojec ... jects.html
(Three interesting resources, although they do not have the projects in depth. Which projects do you find interesting and do-able for me? The first ISEF projects seem complicated. Could you tweak some of those/find a relating project idea that you might think I’m interested in into something that could be an option for me?)
http://www.sciencefairprojects411.com/f ... _ideas.php
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/junior ... ts/a/1307/
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/high-s ... ts/a/1299/

ARTICLES I AM INTERESTED IN:
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_g ... lness.html
http://www.inganic.com/
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/logan/b ... e_cell.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 002510.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 133668.ece
http://science.howstuffworks.com/five-f ... energy.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/earth/ ... tutes3.htm
http://health.howstuffworks.com/health- ... ergies.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question247.htm

I have indeed more research links, though found all of the ones above most interesting. I do not think that I need to do more research to generate the idea – I think it’s now time to compile my research together, dig down deep, pose questions from different angles and, finally, finalize my idea. What do you think?

THANK YOU SO, SO, SO MUCH!

Once upon a time I was reading all the Advanced science project articles. And I stumbled upon the talented Amber Hess.

I've read your articles, and your two ISEF+STS journals. I must say, I'm a huge fan. You inspire me, especially from your TLC computer program and your simple chemistry experiment which turned out to be a hint. When I discovered the Science Buddies forums, and found out that you were helping out, I was amazed. Even better, I knew that you were actively online.

If you don't mind, I have a few questions for you.

1. What exactly was the 'simple chemistry experiment' which you preformed in eighth grade?
2. How do you study the molecular structure of products? Is expensive equipment required? Is there a computer program which is able to study the structure?
3. What grade did you start communicating with a mentor for your science fair projects?
4. How did you generate your science fair idea in grade 7&8? What about in high school, when you developed more original and complex ideas?
5. How did you juggle school, events, extracurricular activities and your science fair project throughout the year? Or did you start and complete your entire project in the summertime?

Lastly, I'd request you to read my current topic, both my posts and the experts' post. If possible, I'd love to have you advise me as well. Barrett and Donna are extremely helpful, and I'll value just one more brain in the game. My other science-related questions are in that post, these are just a few questions. Here is the link: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... =25&t=5967

My family is very education-oriented, and having a chance to 'talk' to an expert who has experienced ISEF and studied at MIT (a uni. of my dad's dreams!) is mindblowing. I may be just in grade 7, I may have started a little late on my project, I may have restrictions on my project, but I'm determined to do well in my science fair.

Looking at this and my other topics are much appreciated. Thanks a TON, I'm really looking forward to your reply.

Hi,

Here are answers to your questions:

1.What is the salt bridge used for? I looked at the following link (http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/ENVE/logan/b ... _QandA.pdf) but I'm still wondering the exact purpose of the bridge.

As the bacteria in the chamber with the anode electrode grow, they produce electrons and protons from the metabolism. The salt bridge allows the protons to migrate to the cathode chamber, where they will react with the electrons and oxygen to form water.

2. Will I need to handle/purchase bacteria?

Bacteria will be present in the mud samples you collect and place in the anode chamber.
So you don’t need to purchase them, but you will have to collect them from a natural source and use caution in handling them.

3. When I do a Science Buddies project, I love to try the Variations. Which variation seems interesting out of the Variables (mentioned below) for the MFC project?

I think it would be great if you could find some locally available waste water source to use for the fuel cell. Or, you could use an unusual material to construct the chamber. Or, perhaps you could optimize the conditions (temperature, pH, etc) for growing the bacteria in the chamber. The production of electricity depends on the growth of the bacteria, so the faster they can grow; the more electricity will be produced. Remember your science fair project should be one carefully controlled experiment that answers a question. What question do you want to ask?

4. Where can I find access to the anaerobic water?

Anaerobic bacteria are found in mud that has been sitting at the bottom of lakes or secondary streams.

Lastly, I am slightly concerned because a student two years ago used the microbial fuel cell to create electricity and methane. I would hate to copy him, or seem as if I am

The subject of microbial fuel cells has been published and is a topic of current interest so there may be other projects on this subject. However, you should realize that progress in science is made one experiment at a time and it will take many experiments to completely understand this topic. You would not want to do the exact experiment that has been done before, but your project will be unique in its details and your results will add to the understanding of how microbial fuel cells work and how to optimize them. The key is in the question you want to ask about this subject.

All of the other ideas you are considering could be developed into prize-winning projects. However, unless you can anticipate a major obstacle with doing the microbial fuel cell project, why don’t you go ahead and get started? You are going to run out of time needed to complete the project. Everything always takes more time than you think it will when you actually are doing the experiment. Let me know what you decide to do, and I’ll help explain the chemistry to you.

Donna Hardy

Hi irregular,

I was actually reading your other topic and noticed that you mentioned me. I'm always happy when my articles are helpful. I was going to respond to the questions you had for me, but you asked me directly first! . I'm going to merge this topic with your original topic so we can keep it all in one place.

Let me think about your questions a bit and I'll answer them later today or tomorrow.

Ahh, thanks so much, Donna! Thank you for those wonderful answers about the MFC. I have a much clearer understanding now!I'll be looking forward to your reply, Amber!

I totally understand how you described that if I'm interested in the MFC, I must start now. Your suggestions are great, and I'm very feeling more confident. However, I'm slightly doubtful about handling the bacteria.

It may just be me, because these days I'm really feeling overwhelmed and stressed and yes, even a little scared, with the soon coming date of the fair, a bunch of different projects ideas... The MFC project is amazing, but I don't know why, I'm doubting the project and worrying that I eventually won't like the project. As they say, if you don't like the project, you won't feel enthusiastic about it and won't put in extra effort.

I think I'm going to take one day to clear my mind out and review my information and research. I think my weak part is that I'm interested in two different fields, Medicine AND Environmental Science, so I've been collecting research on Medicine as well! I'm thinking maybe next year or the year after (when I reach high school) I will do a medicine-related project as I will have more knowledge, more access to equipment and possible help from teachers. By tomorrow or Thursday-Friday, I'll tell you for sure my final project. Over the weekend I'll proceed to collect materials/equipment and do background research.

I truly look up to you, Donna, your science skills and your patience. I'm really not sure what I would've done without you! Thanks once again! Amber: I'll be waiting to hear from you!

Hi Irregular,

I know it's difficult to choose, but you can't do everything in one science project. And I understand that you need to balance this with all of your other subjects and responsibilities. All of the topics you are interested in would be excellent projects, so why don't you go through all of them tonight and eliminate the ones with major obstacles, and just pick one to concentrate on. For the science fair, you need to do one controlled experiment, and hopefully have time to repeat it to see if results are reproducible. It's OK to switch projects at this point, but you do need something to get started on.

Don't be concerned about working with bacteria. You won't have to do classic culture techniques; all you have to do for the MFC project, is find some mud to add to the anaerobic side of the chamber and add a food source like waste water or some rotten vegetables. The bacteria grow on their own as long as they have food, anaerobic conditions, a suitable pH and temperature. What is your concern about working with bacteria?

You are the only one who can pick your project, but do let me know if you have more questions.

Donna Hardy

PROJECTS:
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... x&from=TSW
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... 4&from=TSW
POSSIBLY: http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... Q&from=TSW

ARTICLES:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/logan/b ... e_cell.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question247.htm

Yes, indeed, I can't compile everything into one project. Thanks for helping me realize that. Additionally, thanks for clearing up my bacteria confusion. Okay, so I narrowed my ideas down to 2-3. Over until Thursday-Friday, I will proceed to do research on those three projects, reading articles and research journals and finally telling you my decided project. I am most caught onto the MFC and solar cell output projects, and slightly altering them to make them a little more personal and original.

Thanks!

EDIT: Are there any safety issues concerning the MFC project? Which kind of environment do you recommend I work in?

Hi irregular,

Here are my answers:

1. What exactly was the 'simple chemistry experiment' which you preformed in eighth grade?
I did an experiment that was completed by Raleigh (and Ben Franklin) a long time ago. The molecule I studied is called "oleic acid" and it has the unique property that it will spread out in a pan of water to be a layer only one molecule thick. If you know the volume of the drop of oleic acid and the area of the layer, you just divide volume by area and get the length of the molecule. You can read about it here: http://www.scienceteacherprogram.org/ch ... erg00.html

2. How do you study the molecular structure of products? Is expensive equipment required? Is there a computer program which is able to study the structure?
There are a few ways. If you already know what it is you are working with, you can just look at the molecular properties in a text book. This is what I did for oleic acid (at least to explain why it only forms a layer one molecule thick. It has cool bonding properties with other oleic acid molecules!).

If you have an unknown sample, you need to use very expensive equipment in order to determine the molecular structure. NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) can be used, mass spectrometry can also work, it depends on the molecule. I used NMR for one of my experiments and I just asked around at local labs to see if they would help me out and would volunteer their time. My point when I was talking about understanding the molecular structure of gum was to emphasize that in order to do some "easy looking" projects at a level where a judge would be impressed, it often requires studying advanced concepts and using expensive equipment. At Science Buddies we want you to really learn something from your project, so taking the "easy" way out and doing a stereotypical project like "how long does gum last" isn't really all that useful to you. You'll know which gum lasts the longest, but you won't know WHY unless you study the properties of the components that make up the gum.

There are a couple of programs that are free that allow you to draw molecules (even see them in 3D!). Check out CHIME and ChemSketch (http://www.liv.ac.uk/chemistry/Links/plugins.html). They won't help you determine what a molecule looks like if you don't know what it is. There is special software that comes with the expensive equipment, and even it doesn't just give you the answer! Normally you have to interpret a bunch of graphs to determine the structure.

3. What grade did you start communicating with a mentor for your science fair projects?
I got a mentor starting in 11th grade. I actually found my mentor at the CA state science fair while I was presenting my 10th grade project. She thought what I did was cool and I we kept in touch.

4. How did you generate your science fair idea in grade 7&8? What about in high school, when you developed more original and complex ideas?
Wow, 7th and 8th grade was a long time ago! I can't really remember. Sometimes my dad would suggest things if he found something in a science article. Other times I found something in a science magazine. Sometimes it was related to a hobby I enjoyed. I just asked my dad and he doesn't remember either!

5. How did you juggle school, events, extracurricular activities and your science fair project throughout the year? Or did you start and complete your entire project in the summertime?
In middle school I did the experiment during my winter break in February. The fair was normally right at the end of the break. In high school I worked on it during the summer and vacations, but also some during the school year on weekends or when I had free time after school.

6. Lastly, I'd request you to read my current topic, both my posts and the experts' post. If possible, I'd love to have you advise me as well. Barrett and Donna are extremely helpful, and I'll value just one more brain in the game. My other science-related questions are in that post, these are just a few questions. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5967

Of course I'll help you out. It's why I volunteer after all . Us Experts enjoy seeing students who really utilize the Ask an Expert board and care about their projects and want to learn. We get many posts where a student just wants us to give them the answers without doing any work, so it's refreshing to work with one who cares. I've read some of your original posts but not all, I'll catch up and help you when I can. It looks like Donna and Barrett are doing a superb job so far. I'll chime in if I can add anything.

I will quickly say that in middle school, doing an original topic is extremely advanced. I won 1st place in chemistry at the CA state science fair with my oleic acid experiment, and it was something that had been done before, and I didn't add anything to the subject. However, I understood the theory behind why it all worked, and I studied the molecule's properties. Basically, I "knew my stuff." While it is great that you are trying to challenge yourself, don't stretch yourself too thin and do something too advanced, especially since you don't have months to work on your project. It's high school where original research is really emphasized. I'm sure we can help you figure out something that is challenging and original in some way, without it being overwhelming.

If you are thinking about entering more advanced competitions, you might want to look at the Young Scientist Challenge. I entered my 8th grade project into that as an after thought and didn't get anywhere. I don't think it was what they were looking for. Maybe looking at their website will give you some criteria for doing a good project and help you flesh out some details. Here's the link: http://www.youngscientistchallenge.com/

I just realized I didn't completely answer one of your questions. For my high school projects, in 10th grade I got my idea from a science article I read about "mashing" solid chemicals together and getting them to react with no solvent. I repeated their experiment (though slightly modified it) and that's where I found out that original research is highly valued in high school (and my project was not original). My next project spanned two years and I got the idea from my 10th grade project. I pursued an accident that occurred when I was looking at some digital images. I ended up doing something original that was very satisfying and fun to work on. Just goes to show you that accidents can be a good thing.

If you haven't yet, check out this roundtable article about finding an advanced project idea: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... 2008.shtml

In that roundtable, I think Terik and I are saying the same thing, but he was interpreting "original" as something that had never been done before. In my mind originality can be improving something or doing something completely new (though "completely new" is pretty difficult to achieve, as everything is based on some sort of foundation).

Hi Irregular,

Thanks to Amber for the extremely interesting history of her science fair projects, and for putting things into perspective. Hopefully Amber’s story will help you develop a long range plan for your future. I completely agree with Amber that understanding the chemistry and the science behind a project is critical to success.

Looking at the 3 finalists on you science fair project list, I still think any would make a good project. Here are some comments that may help you decide.

1. The MFC project includes recycling, microbiology, and electrochemistry so has a variety of scientific concepts for you to learn. This is also the most difficult and time-consuming project. You will be working with mud in this project, so if you don’t like the idea of working with mud, you should not do this one.

To answer your question about safety issues with the MFC project, you should know that almost all mud bacteria are not human pathogens. However, since you are working with a mixed culture of unknown organisms, you would want to take the basic precaution of wearing gloves and you should read through the safety information provided in the science buddies guide. There are a few anaerobic bacteria that cause food poisoning and infections , http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec14/ch178/ch178a.html, that are normal flora in the soil, so you would not want to get any mud in food you are going to consume or in an open cut. However, if you take basic precautions, there should no problem with doing this project. One of my hobbies is gardening, so I work with mud all the time and I highly recommend it.

2. The solar panel project is a nice, clean project that requires understanding basic electricity and it won’t take too long to do. I have noticed that sometimes very basic projects that are very well done are the best ones at the science fair, so I would recommend this one if you don’t pick the MFC project.

3. The oxygen project requires ordering an oxygen test kit, so before you pick this project, call the supplier and find out if a kit can be shipped in time. You can’t do this one if you don’t have the test kit. If you do this project, you will have to find out what’s in the test kit and how it works so you can explain the chemistry on your project board. This project could be interesting, depending on the samples you select to test.

When thinking about each of these projects, try to think of the question you will ask that will lead to your experiment. That should help you focus and limit the scope of your project.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Donna Hardy

Wow, thanks so much, Donna and Amber!

Amber: Thanks for making me realize that I can start out small and know my stuff, and in high school pursue more advanced and original projects. I installed chime, and must say is very useful! I'll try to explore any textbooks or science books around the house...

Yes, science magazines/articles, I've found as well, are very inspiring! Additionally, it's very refreshing to know that with a simple experiment and knowing your stuff, you can be passionate and do well! I think I didn't realize that asking and understanding "WHY?" is as important as aiming for originality.

Lastly,thanks for telling me about the Young Scientist Challenge! I really appreciate everything!

Donna: Yes, indeed, Amber helped me with understanding my plan and key things for a middle school project.

Hmm.. I think I narrowed my projects down to two, eliminating the oxygen experiment. I will present my two projects to my parents, receive their opinion, and continue background research. As I mentioned yesterday, I will confirm the project by Friday.

I think that I'm willing to give myself a challenge with the Microbial Fuel Cell project. A lot of people at my fair, even one in the junior level, develop original projects. Even though the MFC project may have been done once or twice at my fair, I'm confident that with adding a little twist on the project and knowing my stuff, I can be successful. The MFC project is definitely winning right now. Plus, have free time these days since many of my projects are complete. I will be as safe and careful with the project, for sure. Thanks for the explanation

If for some reason my parents point out a major obstacle with the MFC project, I will pursue the Solar Cell project. I am a little less passionate on the solar cell project as I was enthusiastic about exploring alternate methods of being environmentally friendly.

I will brainstorm my final experiment question and present it to you in my next response.

Thanks for your time and help.

Hi Irregular,

I think you are making progress now! Once you decide which project to do, you will be more in control because you will have a definite goal and not the uncertainty of not knowing what you are going to do. Presenting the project to your parents is a really good idea as they can help you focus on developing the specific experiment.

Do let us know what you decide. I can help by explaining the chemistry behind your project.

Donna Hardy

Hello!

Yay, it feels great to have more control, certainty and clarity in my goal! So far, I showed my mother. My dad is quite busy these days with extra work, so I'll show him as soon as possible (that will probably be tomorrow). Since he is an engineer, I will probably have access to some equipment like a multimeter (I had access to a conductivity meter last year).

In short, the project is about creating a Microbial Fuel Cell to create clean, renewable energy as well as 'leaving behind clean drinking water'. This project tests various mud samples to see which is most efficient. As I mentioned before, I would like to make this project slightly more original, for me. When I choose a variation, it will ask a different question. Three possibilities for originality include:

1) Making the MFC out of cheap/unusual materials - How can I cheaply and efficiently produce energy using a renewable resource?
2) Controlling the temperature (as you suggested) of the MFC - How can I produce energy quickly using a renewable resource? (This variation means that I control the two bacteria samples at 2-3 temperatures.)
3) Using cheap materials to make the MFC. Then, control the temperature of the MFC - How can I cheaply and efficiently produce energy using a renewable resource? (This variation means that I construct a cheap MFC. Then I control two bacteria at 2-3 temperatures. Or would that become too complicated?)

Do you think those questions seem fine? Can I word the questions more effectively/differently?

Just a last thought - this project involves comparing two mud samples. Could I research WHY I get the specific data I obtain at the end? What I mean is that if Fuel Cell 2 produces more electricity than Fuel Cell 1, could I analyze the different components of the mud and see what Fuel Cell 2 had that made it more efficient?

Thanks so, so much! *fingers crossed that I'll be able to do this experiment!*

Hi,

I think most experts will steer you in the direction of having fewer independent variables rather than more. However, if you have time, supplies, etc., it would be entirely possible to do an experiment where you change three variables (mud sample, expense of materials and temperature). I'm assuming that in addition to building a 'cheap' one, you would also build one at a 'normal' expense and then compare their output? You could certainly do this and then compare the output of both with each mud sample at two or three different temperatures...if you have the time, of course. It might be better to focus on one of the three ideas first, so you can be sure that you'll get at least some data.

As for trying to find out why one produces more or less electricity, I'll let a microbiologist answer that; I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know how doable it is for a middle-school student

Hi!

Thank you so much, Melissa! Yes, indeed it will take more time and more materials to have more independent variables. I think making two MFCs will take more time and money, so I will focus on one MFC, using available and less-costly materials. To make the MFC, my main resources are:
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... x&from=TSW
and
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/logan/b ... e_cell.htm

So, I think I will focus on collecting two-three mud samples and experimenting with two-three temperatures, of course if time permits. As for the question of different bacteria, I will be looking forward to the explanation of a microbiologist. I understand how I may not be able to complete that since it may be complicated, though I'm a little curious of the method how you could determine that.

Thanks again!

Hi Irregular,

Melissa is right; you definitely don't want to plan to do one more thans one variable at a time. I normally recommend doing one experiment, repeating it, and then, if you have time you can do another experiment. This will give you a really good project. So you can compare different designs, different temperatures, or different sources of mud, but just work on one independent variable at a time.

You need to do more background research for now and perhaps the question for the final experiment can be developed based on your reading. In the meantime, you can start gathering materials and identify a location where you can collect mud that has been protected from oxygen (anaerobic). There are lots of materials that need to be collected for this project and you will need to drill holes in the containers you select.

When is your project due? You can make a time line and make sure you will have time to complete at least one set of experiments one week before the project is due, leaving one week to write up your board.

Here are some questions you should try to answer:
1. What quantity of electricity can be produced by a typical microbial fuel cell?
2. Which bacteria produce the most electricity?
3. How long does a MFC last? (the science buddies project says the mud has to be used with a day)
4. What is the optimum temperature? (has anyone done this before?)
5. What types of materials have been used to make MFC's (is there anything that hasn't been used)
6. How to bacteria product electricity?
7. What is electricity?
8. How is electricity measured?

I had promised to explain the chemistry behind your project and so I’ll start with bacterial respiration.

Here is a website that describes aerobic (with oxygen) respiration. Respiration is the breakdown of organic molecules like sugar to produce energy and the chemical reactions leave the organism with extra electrons that must be transferred. If there's no electron acceptor available, respiration will not occur. Aerobic bacteria use oxygen to accept electrons that are needed to produce energy. This is similar to humans; we use oxygen (to burn glucose and produce energy) and the extra electrons are transferred to the oxygen atom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_organism

Anaerobic bacteria are those that grow without oxygen and use other molecules to accept electrons produced from respiration. You have not had chemistry yet, but try reading the following website and understand as much as you can. Let me know if you have questions. This is an important topic for your project.


http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C11/C11L ... Anaer.html

Here is some information about anaerobic bacteria. These are organisms that grow without oxygen, and may even be harmed by the presence of oxygen. When you collect the anaerobic mud sample, you will need to be careful to avoid exposing the sample to oxygen so you don’t kill of some of your subjects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_organism

You will be collecting benthic (bottom of the stream or lake) bacteria for your sample. Here is an abstract that studies the growth and nutritional requirements of one particular benthic organism.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u56238n1t2t14403/

Here is an article on obligately anaerobic green sulfur bacteria, which are found in the bottoms of lakes. Look at this article and see if you can find information about growing these bacteria. Since the production of electricity in the microbial fuel cell depends on the growth of the bacteria, knowing about the culture of the organisms might be helpful for your project.

http://mic.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/144/4/1051.pdf

This is getting very interesting. Can you see the value of doing the background research? Are you getting any ideas that might help you design the final experiment?


Donna Hardy

Hello Donna!

I completely understand how both Melissa and yourself want me to do one variable at a time. Due to time constraints, I will test two-three mud samples at two-three temperatures. Since designing another MFC will consume time, I will release that variable idea this year.

I have started my background research - yesterday I searched some keywords and questions (suggested by the Science Buddies Project) into Google and saved the collection of links. Today, I proceeded on reading the Background Research portion of the Science Buddies Project Guide. By tomorrow/day after, I am planning on gathering all background research information. I will then read and study my Background Research (2-3 hours on weekdays, 3+ hours on Saturday and Sunday). Additionally, over the next week I will collect materials and equipment needed for the experiment. Finding anaerobic mud shouldn't be too much of a hassle as my city has plenty of various water sources. Thanks for the research questions!

My project is due on the second of April, but I would like to be done at least one week before. Here is my timeline:

January 29 - February 7 - Gather, read, study and understand background research. Collect all materials, identify anaerobic water source.
February 8- February 14 - Write research paper.
Febrary 15 - February 19 - Construct Hypothesis, plan out experiment. Start assembling experiment.
February 20 - February 28 - Carry out experiment, once per weekend (a total of two weekends included in that time)
March 1 - March 7 - Analyzing Data, Drawing Conclusions, purchasing Display Board
March 8 - March 21 - Write final report. Practice possible questions and communicate.

What do you think of my timeline? Are all the time lengths appropriate?

Wow, thank you so much for the clear explanation and wonderful links! I will check them out for sure! I have gathered a few other links to the subject of respiration as well.

I am definitely understand the importance or background research now! Once I finally obtain all my background research, I will proceed to learning and understanding. Or do you suggest that I read as I collect the information?

Thank you so much for your efforts, time and patience!

Hi Irregular,

Your timetable looks good, and you have a little extra time to spare in case you are delayed in any of the steps. This is wonderful that you have until April 2; you should be able to do a really good job on this project. You will find that it is very worthwhile to spend a whole week on your background reading:

Here are some additional links for you:

You probably found this one on your own, but it is a really good review of the topic. One interesting fact is that most microbial fuel cells are inactive because the bacteria can’t transfer electrons directly to the medium. A mediator is required to allow electron transfer. This means that your MFC won’t generate any electricity on its own unless your sample contains bacteria that are electrically active. Since you won’t know in advance if your mud sample contains electrically active microbes, you should plan to include a mediator. This site also includes a good description of how the electrons are generated from metabolizing sugar and how the flow of electrons creates electricity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_fuel_cell

Here is a site that reports an improved design for an MFC. A cloth is placed between the anode and cathode chambers to reduce the resistance of the flow of electrons and this resulted in a 10x increase in the production of electricity.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 155306.htm

Here are some pictures of various designs:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... afe=active

Here’s a practical application for a MFC:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/09 ... lagers.php

Next is an excellent reference for your project. This is a review article from a scientific journal. Review articles don’t report results of an experiment, but they summarize the current scientific literature on the topic. It gives you an idea of everything going on in the field. This article should help you decide how to report the results of your science project and includes the proper terminology for the topic. It will also help you know what research has been done on MFC's and maybe give you an idea of what else needs to be done.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es0605016

Next is another scientific paper that gives information on using MFC’s for wastewater treatment. This is a little complicated, but do try to read and understand as much as you can.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1021/es062580r

This is another review article that includes variations in design and challenges in making an MFC.

http://ejournal.vudat.msu.edu/index.php ... le/232/256

You should consider printing the good references you find and filing them in a 3-ring binder. This way they will be handy to refer to when you need them. These references will be the bibliography section of your project.

Also, make sure you have a lab notebook on your list of items to purchase. You will need a bound notebook to record the building of the MFC and the results of the experiments.

Questions to think about while you are reading:

1. Can I think of a better design for MFC’s?
2. Can I think of another application for MFC’s?
3. What will I use for a mediator? Or where can I find electrically active bacteria?


Let me know if you can’t open all of the links; I’ll upload the references for you if necessary. Let me know if you have any questions about the information in any of the references.

Donna Hardy

Hi again,

Here is the science buddies website primer for electronics. This is the basic information you need to understand for your project, and there is a useful link explaining how to use a multimeter.

https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ntro.shtml

Donna Hardy

Hello Donna!

Yes, I'm pretty satisfied with my plan and hopefully I will be on track!

Thanks for the informational websites! Yes, you were right, I did find the first link already, but thanks for the information about mediators! Additionally, thanks for the other great links!

Okay, so I think I have between 40-50 links to help my background research. Do you think that's a good amount of references? I have a few links for each research term, concept, etc. Personally I think that I have a good amount of references to work with, so I'll proceed to start reading and understanding the references. If I have any questions, thankfully you're there to help me along the way!!! Also, I'll dig any science books or textbooks I find at home. It's great because my family has a set of DVD lectures on science which touches on the chemistry and biology relating to my project!

So when I start reading my background research I'll keep track of the best links and print them off. I remembered that I'll need a lab notebook last night, and so I read the Science Buddies articles on Lab Notebooks. I also found a notebook at home for usage. So far, I included my timeline in there, a few questions I have for my experiment and materials, and things to touch on during background research.

Thanks for all your help!

EDIT:

Hi Donna! I was reading through some background material, and came across three webpages:
1. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... trate.html
2. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... nisms.html
3. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... -MFCs.html

I was just wondering if these references are relevant and of use to my experiment. If yes, could you help summarize/help me understand what they are describing?

Are these three Scientific American articles useful?
1) http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... t-wastewat
2) http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... rts-biomas
3) http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ry-convert

Additional questions:
1) Most of my references describe that the MFC uses 'organic material/compounds' - that would be my mud, right? If I wanted, could I substitute that mud for wastewater? If I used wastewater, I would produce the electricity and have clean drinking water, right?
2) Some say that proteins or glucose is used as well (http://www.springerlink.com/content/h680w58354168325/). How is this possible?
3) What happens to the bacteria after it releases the electrons? Does it die? What do I do when the electricity has been produced?
4) How would I safely dispose my MFC after finishing my experiment? Is it dangerous to dispose because of the bacteria?

I am not able to open:
1) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es0 ... ode=esthag
2) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es0 ... ode=esthag
The website is wanting me to pay to view the journals. I guess I would have to do without them unless I pay, right?

Hi Irregular,

I think 40-50 references should be good to give you a good background on all of the topics related to this experiment. You will have to develop a good understanding of microbial respiration and electrical circuits, and you need to be familiar with all of the research that has been done so far on microbial fuel cells, so there’s a lot of territory to cover. You are very wise to realize that you need to spend time reading and asking questions to make sure you understand the scientific concepts.

I read through the science buddies project guide again last night, and I realized why this project is rated a 10 in difficulty. The actual construction of the MFC is very complicated and so I think you should start the actual construction of the unit as soon as you can gather the materials. It’s going to take a lot of time to put the unit together before you can actual do an experiment.

You are proficient in finding good links for your project. Here are some comments:

1. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... trate.html

I like this reference because it’s a summary of several research papers and it includes the actual references so you can look up the details in the materials and methods sections. It also answers a concern I have had about using just a random sample of mud for the project. The production of electricity in an MFC depends on the rate of microbial metabolism. If the sample of mud doesn’t have any nutrients (electron donors) left in it, the microbes are not going to be growing and metabolizing and won’t produce much power. According to this source, MFC researchers have tried a number of different food sources (electron donors) and have found that adding acetate to the anaerobic chamber increases power output better than other sources. For your project, you could consider looking for a local industrial wastewater (acid mine, brewery, paper recycling, (something safe enough to work with), that contains a reduced molecule that could be used as an energy source. Developing this idea could make your project very unique.

2. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... nisms.html

This is an excellent reference also; it explains how and why bacteria transfer electrons during respiration. The chemistry here is the basis of the MFC. The significance for your project is that an MFC won’t work without a terminal electron acceptor, and you need to make sure your system has a suitable molecule available in your system. Read this reference until you understand it, and use the information in the background section of your project board.

3. http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/in ... nisms.html

This is another very good reference because it summarizes many of the factors (short circuit, high resistance) that will affect the power output on your MFC. Save this reference for troubleshooting in case your MFC doesn’t work the first time, or if it stops working after a while.

4. http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... t-wastewat

This is not really a reference, but it includes general information about the species of bacteria that are best as generating power. You will be using a mixed culture of bacteria and identifying them is outside of the scope of your experiment, but possible a good topic for a future project.

5. http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... rts-biomas

Like #4, this is more of a news report rather than a reference, but it does refer to a scientific paper published in Environmental Science and Technology that might be interesting. The topic, which is the use of a microbial fuel cell design to generate hydrogen gas as a source of energy, is interesting but not really related to your project.

6. http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ry-convert

This is interesting. It’s a report of a specific bacterium, Rhodoferax ferrireducens that is able to transfer electrons directly to the electrode of an MFC without a mediator. This could be related to your topic if you were to obtain this organism and use it in your MFC. This reference could also have other significant implications for your project.

Here is the original reference reporting the isolation and identification of this interesting organism.

http://ijs.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/53/3/669

This organism was isolated from fresh water in Oyster Bay, VA and it can use lactate and acetate as an electron donor (energy source) and uses Fe(III) as an electron acceptor. You could incorporate lactate as electron acceptor into your experimental protocol if you want to. Also, this paper has some information related to your current experimental idea (comparison of temperatures). This bacterium is a psychotroph (cold loving) and its optimum temperature for growth is 25 degrees Centigrade.

Answers to additional questions:

1. The organic materials described in the MFC references refer to the molecules that are donating the electrons to the circuit. This is the glucose, sucrose, acetate, rotting vegetables, proteins or whatever the electron (food, energy) source is.
2. There are bacteria that will use any carbon source as a source of energy (electrons for the MFC). Humans can also use glucose and proteins for an electron/energy source, but we use oxygen as the electron acceptor.
3. The production of electrons is due to the respiration (breathing or burning food for energy in humans). The MFC just “steals” some of the electrons produced to create a complete circuit. The bacteria should keep growing and producing electrons.
4. Since the MFC will contain a high concentration of unknown microorganisms, you can put the contents in a bucket and add bleach (strong oxidizing agent) to kill the organisms at the end of the experiment.

I will upload the journal articles for you. The organization I work for pays for a subscription for these articles, and we have permission to share them. You don’t have to pay for anything. Using scientific references is essential for a prize-winning science project because prior publications lay the foundation for the next experiment

Donna Hardy.

Hi Donna!

Yes, indeed, there's a lot to cover!From the parts of the MFC, to bacteria, to the electrons.. As for the construction, I understand that a lot of time and care will be needed. However, I think I will need to do a lot of shopping if I construct the MFC showed on the Science Buddies website. Hence, I found a few other resources which explain to me how to make an MFC, with cheaper materials. I think that if I substitute a few material it will take me less time and it will be proof that it is possible to economically and ecologically produce an MFC.

1) http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple- ... -An-Algae/
2) http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/MFC/tutorials.htm
3) http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/logan/b ... _guide.htm

Thanks a lot for the helpful comments! Right now I'm not too sure on a few terms so I'll read more background research references. Once I understand the terms better, I will refer back to these references/articles and your comments.

Additionally, thanks for the clear answers. They really give me a better understanding!

Lastly, I really appreciate that you will be able to upload these articles for me. It will help me in constructing my MFC, understanding my MFC and thinking creatively.

You are a big part of my experiment are permitting me to take on such an interesting and complex experiment by helping my understand and giving me amazing and intelligent tips. I am so greatful!

Hi Irregular,

Thanks for including the links to the alternative MFC construction directions. I agree that using less expensive materials is a good and idea, and presumably this plan will work well since it is based on a plan suggested by Bruce Logan from University of Pennsylvania, who is also the primary author of the review article I am sending. However, the construction of an MFC involves 9 major steps and involves a glue gun and soldering. The finished product must have a complete circuit and it can't leak. Have you ever soldered anything before?

The review article will be uploaded in 5 parts; I can only send 2-3 pages at a time. This article was published in 2006, and it covered different materials and methods used to construct MFC’s and suggests ways to analyze the performance. You can read this article and then look for newer references that have been published since 2006 to have a complete history.

Donna Hardy