HELP!!!!!!!Help on a topic

[gordman]

Great posts in here. I wouldn't go with "I might use", it's too obscure...

[jamesleerpc]

Thanks everyone, you have helped me greatly...I have a question...i am trying to make all my pills/caplet/tablets to be pain reliever or headache type relievers(all with 500mg) would it mess my project up if i used a tylenol that helps break arthiritis and a pain reliever pill that is used only at daytime/nighttime?

[Louise]

Thanks everyone, you have helped me greatly...I have a question...i am trying to make all my pills/caplet/tablets to be pain reliever or headache type relievers(all with 500mg) would it mess my project up if i used a tylenol that helps break arthiritis and a pain reliever pill that is used only at daytime/nighttime?

Check the label. As long as they only have on active ingredient, you should be fine. But, stuff for the nighttime usually has a second ingredient to help you sleep, so that might mess things up.


Louise

[Sng4u2]

I have a science fair project due around november and i need a topic...i have a broad idea...it will be biology that contains bacteria....i need a crtique on one of my topics....and i also need topic suggestions....

my topic i have as a "i might use":

What is the effect of different kind of cleaning wipes destroying the most bacteria?

Hi i'm new on here and i doubt if i can help you with your problem but maybe you can help me on mine? i can't find a project idea either-but i am thinking about doing mine on how to make homemade cosmetics what do you think? are you a girl or boy? is this site for science Nerds no offense if you consider ur self one!!lol

[jamesleerpc]

boschhh...go make a new thread....and louise thanks because i had a hard time deciding....ill let you know if anything comes up

[Louise]

boschhh...go make a new thread....and louise thanks because i had a hard time deciding....ill let you know if anything comes up

No problem. I hope things are going well.


Louise

[jamesleerpc]

Thanks...by the way...would it be ok like if i had different amount of it(mg) if my teacher says its ok or will it mess the experiment up because of different mgs?

[MaryamM]

I think you should keep the sizes of the pills the same. If the pills are different sizes/masses, then they will dissolve at different rates simply because they are of different sizes/masses. Your projects is determing the effects of pill composition on their rate of dissolution, so you want to control all other factors (including pill size/mass).

I hope this helps.

~Maryam M.

[jamesleerpc]

if i cant find like brand named pills is it ok to use generics?(like at rite aid or someplace like that)?

[Louise]

if i cant find like brand named pills is it ok to use generics?(like at rite aid or someplace like that)?

James,
I thought you already had the brand names. I think it is fine to use generics (as I have said before) and compare the brand-name to the generic. I guess I'm a little confused about what you are doing. Could you post your variables (controlled, responding, etc) here, and what you are planning to test.


Thanks,
Louise

[jamesleerpc]

Title: Which pain reliever is best for you?

Null Hypothesis: There is no significant difference in the rate at which different pills dissolve in a solution at a pH of 3.

Independent Variable: The types of pain relievers being tested

Dependant Variable: Difference in how long it takes to dissolve

Constants: Amount of HCl, pH of HCl, temperature of HCl, quantity of each pill, speed of the magnetic stirrer.

Materials:
A TEACHER (most likely my biology teacher)
HCl (?mL)- Depends on what the pH of it will be
5 pills of Tylenol
5 pills of Advil
5 pills of Aleve
5 pills of Aspirin
Digital Clock
Lab Gloves
Lab Goggles
Lab Apron
Thermometer
Magnetic Stirrer
Water
pH measuring machine
Fume Hood

Procedure:
1. Gather all materials and wear safety equipment have running water handy.
2. Measure the pH of the HCl and make it to a pH of 3.
3. Gather the pills. Drop 1 pill in a narrow beaker containing 25mL of HCl.
4. Time how long it took for the pill to dissolve and record.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 for the same type of pill (gathering a new 25mL of HCl for each time).
6. Repeat steps 3-5 for the other types of pills.
7. *With your teachers help* dispose of the liquid and clean all the materials used and put them all back.
8. Analyze the data

[Louise]

Title: Which pain reliever is best for you?

Null Hypothesis: There is no significant difference in the rate at which different pills dissolve in a solution at a pH of 3.

Independent Variable: The types of pain relievers being tested

Dependant Variable: Difference in how long it takes to dissolve

Constants: Amount of HCl, pH of HCl, temperature of HCl, quantity of each pill, speed of the magnetic stirrer.

Materials:
A TEACHER (most likely my biology teacher)
HCl (?mL)- Depends on what the pH of it will be
5 pills of Tylenol
5 pills of Advil
5 pills of Aleve
5 pills of Aspirin
Digital Clock
Lab Gloves
Lab Goggles
Lab Apron
Thermometer
Magnetic Stirrer
Water
pH measuring machine
Fume Hood

Procedure:
1. Gather all materials and wear safety equipment have running water handy.
2. Measure the pH of the HCl and make it to a pH of 3.
3. Gather the pills. Drop 1 pill in a narrow beaker containing 25mL of HCl.
4. Time how long it took for the pill to dissolve and record.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 for the same type of pill (gathering a new 25mL of HCl for each time).
6. Repeat steps 3-5 for the other types of pills.
7. *With your teachers help* dispose of the liquid and clean all the materials used and put them all back.
8. Analyze the data

James,
This looks good. I want to make a few comments. I think a controlled variable should either be the amount of active ingredient (i.e. only test items with 500 mgs of medicine and generics are fine) or the total mass of the pill should be controlled (for example, aleve is much smaller than tylenol). I think the first (control= active ingredient) is easier, and using generics is fine.

Secondly, you probably want to test more than 5 pills of each type. The more you can test the better your results will be. 5 is okay, but it is a small enough sample that you might have problems with the data analysis.

Third, I would HIGHLY recommend that you do this experiment at room temperature. Obviously, in the body HCl is hot (98 F), but this is more dangerous to do, even in a fume hood. I don't know what temperature you are planning to do, but I wanted to add this warning.

Lastly, I don't know if this is your "real" procedure that you are including in your paper, or just a brief outline to answer my question. If it is for your paper, you should add more detail (temperature, speed of stirring, etc.)

I'm glad to see that things are going well. I'm not sure if I answered your last question, which was about generics. I think using generics are fine, and you can even compare the generic against the brand name pill.

Louise

[jamesleerpc]

well that was my draft....but when i read the other persons experiment(hhamodat) he only used 5 and explained some reason for it...but if you insist ill change it ...would 10 be ok?and i have got the real pills i am gonna use(i only have 4 diff types tough:( )...they are...equate extra strength pain reliever(by the way all these are 500mg)....tylenol extra strength...aspirin...and cvs brand of extra strength pain relief....

[jamesleerpc]

one more question....what i found out about the magnetic stirrer was totally different than what i had read on another site...could you personally tell me what a magnetic stirrer is and does because i am a bit confused and i dont know which one to believe...

[jamesleerpc]

one more question....i went to this site and it told me stuff about the magnetic stirrer that was totally different from the other site i read it from....and i am really confused about what it does and hwo it works ...could you tell me personally what it is and what it does?

[jamesleerpc]

sorry i thought one of the posts didnt get posted

[Louise]

James,

5 pills are fine, but 10 is better! 4 types of pills are fine.

Here is a picture of a stirrer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stirrer

You put a magnet (stir bar) in the acid and the beaker goes on the stand and when you turn it on, the magnet stirs around. Does this answer your question? I'm not sure what you are asking.

Your teacher (or the chemistry teacher) should have one for you to use.


Louise

[jamesleerpc]

Thank yoo louise ...what i was asking is because when i went to 2 different websites it both gave me different information....thats why...by the way...is it ok to have equate and cvs pain relievers...its because both have acetaminophen...and tylenol has acetaminophen already...so just curious

Thanks,
James

[Louise]

Thank yoo louise ...what i was asking is because when i went to 2 different websites it both gave me different information....thats why...by the way...is it ok to have equate and cvs pain relievers...its because both have acetaminophen...and tylenol has acetaminophen already...so just curious

Thanks,
James

Well, as you know from your research, a pill is not just the active ingredient. It is also (mostly?) a filler. The shape, size, and coating are also factors. So, testing Tylenol and CVS acetaminophen are not testing the same pill- only one small part is the same. BUT, you should not test two generics of the same kind, (for example RiteAid Acetaminophen vs CVS acetaminophen) because many generics are made by the same company and thus are the same pill. Look at this list-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15637699/

all of these pills had different names, but were the same pill, made by the same company. Is that clear?


Louise

[jamesleerpc]

OMG how does one company do that?!?!?!well anywayz... i am tryin to get the HCl now thanks

[jamesleerpc]

louise a question just stumped me...well if HCl is at room temperature wouldnt the data be inaccurate since the HCl in our stomachs is around 98 degrees?

[deleted-71588]

if HCl is at room temperature wouldnt the data be inaccurate since the HCl in our stomachs is around 98 degrees?

You are asking a great question worthy of scientific inquiry. If you have some extra time, you can probably run an experiment where you compare a trial at room temperature with one at internal body temperature to see if there is a temperature effect; however, you probably need to ask some additional questions to know it it matters:
1) How much fluid and at what temperature was used to swallow the pill(s)? If it was a lot of ice water, room temperature maybe too high. If it was hot tea then internal body temperature maybe slightly low.
2) How fast will the temperature of the stomach fluid change compared to how fast the disolving takes place?

These are even more challenging questions and much harder to model and may vary significantly from one individual to the next and may depend on what the individual has been doing prior to this (eating, fasting, etc.) because the blood flow rate to the stomach significantly effects the thermal transfer rates.

[Louise]

James,
Given the safety concerns, I think you should not test the higher temperature HCl. However, you can use your everyday experience to make some predictions. Does salt or sugar dissolve faster in hot or cold water? Does a pill dissolve faster in hot or cold water?

As Craig points out, the 'real world' situation you are trying to model is very complicated, so your simple test isn't going to be completely true to what actually happens in the body. Just know what is different and make some hypotheses about what might happen in the body in case your teacher or a judge asks.

Glad to see you are thinking about these questions!
Louise

[jamesleerpc]

Wow! i never knew it would be that complicated...well thank you everyone...ill get back to you as fast as i can with the data... ...by the way i should be posting the data around the 15th or 16th of oct because i am doing it on the 15...

Thanks
James

[vanessa123]

Can some one help me plzzzzzzzz

[vanessa123]

help........

[Willz]

Can some one help me plzzzzzzzz

If you need help vanessa123, how about starting a new topic thread and telling us the exact problem you need help with? It is too confusing if more than one student is being helped on different projects on the same thread.

[jamesleerpc]

who is this that is writing all over my thread?

[Louise]

who is this that is writing all over my thread?

James,
How is the project going? You're doing the experiment this week, right? Don't worry about other people posting to this thread; sometimes new people are confused about how this works. If an expert doesn't ask them to start a new thread, feel free to do so yourself (nicely!). Remember how anxious you were about your science project; other people are anxious too, and may not post exactly right. If you can help someone with their project, you can do that too!

Hope you have a good week, and get lots of exciting data!


Louise

[jamesleerpc]

wow!!!!i am so sorry i still have not posted the data...my teacher said 20 should be better....so i am still working on it ...and my control is putting all the different types of pills(20 of ea) in disstilled water......But what is amazing is that the pills dont dissolve but actually break out from the inside and get bigger .....ill be probably finishing my experiment by this thursday or next monday....but my controls will not be finished yet...