Where to Find Good Ideas

[bclaw2011]

Hi, I am back for more help. I thank you to all who helped me with the project I produced this year. I am also pleased that I made it to the state competition. It was my first time and an amazing experience. I really learned a lot though it seemed I returned to my hometown with nothing from the competition. I am exceedingly interested in attending the 2009 ISEF which will be held in Reno. I just wish I knew where these superkids find their project ideas that are broad and complex. I mostly think there super intelligent parents do it for them. However, I would love to have an extreme project like theirs. I made mine as complex as possible and the judges really liked it. Yet there were as always better projects. Anyway, I would love to know where to find ideas. I figure it's best to start looking during the summer and get started on some research. Can one of the moderators help me out with some resources other than the Science Buddies. They are really good but I need expansion on the topics. Also none of the GSEF project ideas off their website beacuse they've been used already.

[bclaw2011]

I am really desperate to find a scientific analysis with some depth, meaning applicaiton, and something never explored. I don't know how many timesI have searched every search engine possible in order to find a usable issue. I don't think I can find that in issues concerning the energy crisis. I just thought of an idea. Conducting a survey, somewhat like an IQ test, to measure the rate of intellect in different school systems. What do you think? I am so worried. I feel like I will never find an interseting topic. If it helps, I am really interested in chemistry, environmental science, and biotechnology with additional possibilities in computer science.

[deleted-2574]

Hi bclaw2011,

This is deep question you pose. Lots of researchers around the world are asking the same question. Of course, there are no easy answers.

I discussed your posting with my wife (hope you don't mind, two heads are better than one.). Her suggestion was to look at recent issues of Scientific American and Discover Magazine to see if any of the articles suggest a project. You may also look at specialized periodicals in chemistry, environmental science, biotechnology, and computer science. You might find all these publications at your local library or university.

The above will require some work, but I think it was Edison who said "genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration.

[MelissaB]

Another thing you might consider doing is contacting professors at a nearby college or university who do projects you're interested in and asking if they would be willing to mentor you. While they won't necessarily give you ideas, they might be willing to give you access to specialized equipment in your lab they wouldn't have otherwise.

As to the idea you propose, realize you'll need permission from parents (and I think the science fair itself) to have their students participate in such a survey, and that oftentimes surveys tend to be biased in a number of ways--for example, students may not take your survey seriously since they're not getting a grade on it and may therefore not score as high as they could. It may also be that different schools score differently not as a result of the school's ability to teach students but as a result of other factors your survey may not be able to measure. I don't want to discourage you too much since this is a neat idea--just help you realize that you may want to do more than just give students a test, depending on what variables you want to look at. 'Intellect', after all, comes in many different forms.

[deleted-2574]

This post is not on the "Where to Find Good Ideas" topic, but related to the discussion only.

Just to verify the quotation I cited above, I searched quotationspage.com and found the following:

Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration.
Thomas A. Edison (1847 - 1931), Harper's Monthly, 1932

So, it's good quote! (Later, I did a search on the Ask an Expert bulletin board and found two references to the quote including one from ghariman, who uses it in his signature line, so I didn't need to go outside Science Buddies.)

Some notes:

1. The quote appears to been used posthumously, how bizarre!
2. Even more bizarre is the site, http://www.oldandsold.com/articles26/sp ... -280.shtml, which says the quote is: Genius is two per cent inspiration, ninety-eight per cent perspiration!

[bclaw2011]

I have another idea. I've thinking about it since after ISEF was over. I was thinking of conducting a series of tests to test substances for alternative fuel based on the different factors that allow petrol (gasoline) to be used in the average car with a internal combustion engine. I have since abandoned the idea a few weeks ago. The only liquid I could think of is vegetable oil. But prices of vegetable oil are at a bottleneck (price rise) just like everything else. So that's why I was thinking of testing different vegetable oil brands since there are many convincing stories that cause the validation of vegetable oil as an alternative fuel. I was thinking water but literature states that the hydrogen in the water will cause the car to explode (actually my eighth grade science teacher told me that). In using only vegetable oil brands it would be used vegetable oil. I am really interested in the research behind petroleum alternatives and I just wish I could do my part and my scientific contribution beacuse I am terrified if 10 years from now people go back to using horses as common transportation beacuse the earth ran out of oil or there simply isn't enough to go around!!!

[deleted-71447]

Joshua,
Alternative energy sources are certainly going to be an important topic for years to come. Vegetable oil is already in use as a petroleum alternative ( http://www.biodiesel.org/ ). Use of hydrogen as a fuel source is also a well-demonstrated techology ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle ). There are many other alternative energy sources as well.

I would echo previous comments in this thread about the importance of having a good mentor and being strongly devoted to the work. Depending on where you live, your best bet for finding a really high-caliber project might be to seek a research mentor at a university, national laboratory, government agency, or industry.

Regards,
Chris

[bclaw2011]

How about this idea for a high caliber project? According to common literature, there is much controversy when discussing the side effects of high caffeine levels of energy drinks. I am sure with continuous research concerning the effects of high caffeine levels inside the human body and finding out how to measure it will allow me to form a experimental hypothesis and design. I think I might be on to something here. I heard in a commercial for an energy drink that most popular energy drink brands do give energy but it causes a crash after a certain amount of time mostly pretaining hourly increments. Nowhere in the literature I have read does it say that this has been tested for it may be an assumption only. What do you think?

[bclaw2011]

To add this is most likely a chemistry-subjected analysis.

[bclaw2011]

As far as an experimental design, it would involve two or three parts. That would include:

1. Experimentation on the effects of energy drinks on human performance; and
2. The effects of a caffeine free energy drink on the human body by caffeine extraction through use of ethyl acetate.

Thing is I'll have to do the first one to test my newly formed hypothesis based on literature of energy drinks do increase energy and physical performance, however causing nervous system crashes after an amount of time regardless.
Once I do that I will perform the second objective. Both objectives will involve using the same testing methods. Then I could dilute the caffeine though it will be already diluted since ethyl acetate slows the rate of performance and alertness. I would adjust them both to make them balance each other out to make sure there is not too much ethyl acetate and not too much caffeine.
Ethyl acetate is most likely inconsumable since it is derived from ethanol. Industrially ethanol is used to decaffeinate coffee beans and tea leaves. Since ethyl acetate is present in wines, it can be consumable. Problem is it turns into off-flavor when it gets too much air.
Another problem is if I If I carry out this experiment, it may be very expensive unless I go to a high-tech chemistry lab to carry out my experimentation. Hopefully there are those that exist in Georgia.
However, the results form Objective 1 could come out to be that people do not crash after extensive hours of energy presented by energy drink consumption. I still doubt it though. That television commercial seemed pretty accurate. But if that may be the result of Objective 1, Objective 2 will not be needed but listed as something that could be further explored. Use of Objective 1 enough would still be a good enough I think to compete in the 2009 science fair competition season. I just really want to go to Intel ISEF 2009 really bad. It's going to be held in Reno. Even though I might not place at state, I still think I could have a chance of winning the grand prize of the ISEF trip at regionals.

[bclaw2011]

I am just so pleased that I came up with all of this by myself even if I can't perform the experiment. I normally don't credit myself for being that intellectually accapable.

[deleted-71710]

Hi there bclaw2011, it appears you have a lot of ideas and are very enthusiastic about your upcoming science fair... that's a great start! All the topics you've mentioned have potential so I would recommend choosing the one that interests you most.

A project that evaluates the effects of energy drinks would be very interesting and also very challenging at the same time. A simple google search for "energy drinks health" produces a variety of information/opinions. Be sure to consider the reliability of the sources when conducting your research. This has been a hot topic for debate in recent years (and for caffeine many, many years). However, drawing definitive conclusions can be difficult so a good experimental design is essential. There are also safety and liability concerns with experiments involving human subjects and administration of potentially hazardous chemicals. Ethyl acetate and caffeine are both toxic in high doses (see MSDS links below), and the analytical methods required to accurately measure concentrations of these materials are relatively complex.

ethyl acetate http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e2850.htm
caffeine http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/C0165.htm

There are also challenges associated with chemistry here. Decaffeination by ethyl acetate extraction is typically performed on whole coffee beans or tea leaves (solid-liquid extraction), after which the liquid is drained and the decaffeinated solid is further processed. A liquid-liquid extraction requires solvents that are easily separated (such as water and oil). Ethyl acetate is somewhat soluble in water (both polar solvents), and water tends to break ethyl acetate into its ethanol and acetic acid components. Given these considerations, this method would not be optimal for extraction of caffeine from a water-based liquid energy drink. A chromatographic separation would be better suited to this application, and this would require specialized equipment.

A more feasible project may be to compare the physiological / psychological effects of different energy drinks (caffeinated, non-caffeinated, and some sort of control/placebo that contains no stimulants) on a variety of subjects (different ages, genders, levels of fitness). Conclusions could be made based on easily obtained physical data (pulse, blood pressure, respriration rate, ability to perform physical exercises) and a subject questionnaire (did you feel any effect?, good/bad?, duration?, after-effects?). If you choose to pursue a more sophisticated project I would recommend contacting an organic chemist at a local college or university to see if they would be willing to share their laboratory facility and provide an appropriate level of technical guidance/supervision.

I hope this helps you with your decision. Please let us know if you have any further questions and be sure to keep us posted on your progress!

- Ryan

[bclaw2011]

I actually like your idea so much better Ryan. Testing the psychological/physiological effects of energy drinks. I will very much look into that. The chemistry of energy drinks and its effect on the human body really do interest me next to solutions to the current energy crisis. I was actually trying to find a way to allow my current projected analysis to work out but it's difficult. I don't mind learning about the complex chemical properties of ethyl acetate and caffeine. It's just that I cannot find a HPLC-High Performance Liquid Chromatography device to seperate the caffeine and ethyl acetate. Also, I've had trouble finding an effective design, possibly using blood pressure as a factor though I cannot be guaranteed access to the blood pressure monitor. Also the practical application may seem to be insignificant. Energy drinks are only harmful when you overconsume meaning more than one can at a time.

Conducting a scientific analysis with your idea. It can confirm whether energy drinks are really harmful just after one serving. In doing that I will be able to explain the energy drink process inside the human body in my conclusions. Just a thought.

I wonder if doing this investigation could educate and not cause people to overconsume. Cases concerning that are common. They just need not overcosume.

I should probably test a variety of energy drinks or one specific one. The most popular energy drink. Redbull.

[deleted-2131]

bclaw2011,

I think the ideas that you've been discussing and the advice you have received from the other Experts who have joined this discussion is excellent. Permit me to add a few comments about choosing a topic and preparing for a top competition like ISEF.

First, look at the trove of information found here: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ndex.shtml. The articles, resources, and blogs in this section of the Science Buddies website contain many tips and suggestions to help you prepare to compete at a fair like ISEF.

Second, it seems to me that you are worrying too much about picking a topic that is "important" or "significant" or that "makes a contribution". While it is true that a large portion of the projects that compete at ISEF do contain original research and make a contribution to the body of knowledge about the particular subject in which the project is based, the reason that the projects are significant is not so much that they picked an "important" topic, but that they had enough drive and passion to pursue that topic to a place where fundamental questions remained unanswered.

My advice to you is to pick a topic that you are really, really interested in without worrying about how "important" that topic is. Once you have decided on a particular topic (and any of the ones you've mentioned in this message thread would be suitable), start doing as much background research as possible to understand what has already been done in the field and what questions remain to be answered. Keep questioning and digging deeper; I can guarantee that as you do so you will find a project. Also, seek out a mentor who can help you. Don't be afraid to talk to people; there are some good tips in the articles I gave the link to previously.

Also remember that a topic's significance is not necessarily related to the amount of attention it has in the media. Renewable energy is certainly a current and relevant topic, but constraining the formation of banded iron formations, for example, is important to geologists even though the average Joe on the street might care less.

[bclaw2011]

I understand exactly what you are saying Terik. Thank you for the advice. I will be sure I keep that in mind as I involve myself in future scientific analytical research. Though an analysis of energy drinks may or may not be a significant application to the mass population, it still leaves unanswered questions in energy drink health concerns. Therefore I still want to pursue it. There is no reported observation of the topic as far as experimentation so the research would be pretty original. However, I would like to use the suggestions given by Ryan to start planning my analysis therefore using his suggestions as my topic. Hopefully the research can still be considered original. But why not? Though he gave the suggestion, I will plan the experimental design and do the research. Anywho, since I want to pursue this experiment I would find out where to obtain the some sort of control/placebo that contains no stimulants and what it is. Also if I need to collect the data by having the subjects exercising or by just sitting after a period of time. Most likely not the sitting because I read that it's not good for people to stand still or sit for a period of time after energy drink consumption. All questions to be answered through more research.

[deleted-2131]

bclaw2011,

I wholeheartedly agree that studying energy drinks is a valid and interesting topic; the more you are interested in your topic, the more likely you are to succeed. And taking Ryan's suggestions about how to start going about your research does nothing to influence the originality or creativity of your project; brainstorming ideas with colleagues is a part of science. I can't say much about obtaining control/placebo drinks, but I am sure that other Experts watching this topic will chime in. Good luck in your endeavors; keep those questions coming!

[MelissaB]

Placebo drinks may be difficult, but one variable you should be able to easily deal with independently is sugar--the 'diet' drinks tend to have sugar substitutes rather than sugar in them, but they look exactly the same. Keep in mind that some people will be very good at telling them apart, however, and that that could influence your results. Likewise, you may be able to find 'caffeine free' versions of drinks--though there I think you would have better luck with soda than with energy drinks, which tend to promote the amount of caffeine they have.

[deleted-71710]

Hi bclaw2011, I hope you're making good progress on your project! I've been thinking of ways you can reduce test subject bias. . . it hasn't been easy but here are some thoughts. Many people can identify the drinks by looking at them so you would want to serve them in a container that prevents them from seeing it. The senses of smell and taste are related, so plugging the subject's nose prior to ingestion would prevent them from smelling the drink and help mask the flavor. We've all had the unpleasant experience of drinking/eating after brushing our teeth, so having the subjects brush prior to ingestion would also help mask the flavor. The last idea is to administer an over-the-counter topical oral anesthetic (i.e. Orajel) on the tongue and roof of the mouth prior to ingestion. I speak from experience when I say that this will certainly disrupt the sense of taste. These preparations usually contain benzocaine or a related compound, so administration of this type of product may not be permissable. Be sure to get your teacher's approval before proceeding.

Good luck!
Ryan

[bclaw2011]

My objective for this scientific analysis is to find what is it with energy drinks that causes a jittery burst of energy but then a crash and if this statement is true. What energy drink components are contributing to the problem if it's true and what's the complication. The thing is I'm kind of confused with an approach to how to test that to be able to answer it. Maybe I should research every component present in caffeinated drinks, non-caffeinated, and those with no stimulants but are supposed to give energy. Once I find this, I want to see if this is a problem and if it can be fixed.