Biodiesel

[deleted-30766]

Hello,

I am doing a project on biodiesel!! So, I was wondering what would be a creative, origional way to make creating biodiesel my own(i.e. comparing it to something etc.). I also wanted to know a full-proof recipe to make biodiesel(I am willing to do plenty of research to find out how to do the steps! So make it hard). I have 1,2,3 months to complete the project and a dad that is a machinist so i have plenty of resources.....

Your Crazy Student(Who Does Science Fair over the Summer!!)

[deleted-30766]

Ok so i am not sure what this is considered so i am putting it under chemistry and enviromental science.

I am wanting to make biodiesel, but i want my project to be origional....do you have any ideas as to how to make it origional??? Also, I need a recipe on how to make biodiesel(please make it hard!! I have plenty of time to experiment with it!!)

[deleted-71588]

Biodiesel is a hot topic with lots of ongoing research. I'm sure there are lots of different aspects of coming up with a new efficient low cost process that utilizes raw products for which there are few competing uses. Have you done any reading in this area? What aspects of biodiesel are interesting to you? Depending on what you are specifically interested in investigating, your topic might belong here or in Chemistry/Physics forum. I'm answering here because your original post here had a bit more information.

In addition to searching other sites, several students have done some biodiesel related projects so you might want to search this site for what they came up with in terms of background and advice but you don't want to repeat their project, you want to come up with your own investigation into something slightly different aspect.

[deleted-71588]

This is a duplicate post to https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... 5dd#p20812 in the Life Sciences forum and I've answered in that forum. Depending on where that thread goes, it may need to be moved to this forum.

[deleted-71588]

So make it hard

I'm sorry, I hate intentionally making things hard. Good Science doesn't have to be hard. In fact, coming up with something simple and straight forward is really the hard part. On one hand, you are asking us for a "recipe", which if all you do is follow it, that would make it too siimple and you would not learn nearly as much as if you first tried to figure out things on your own. The mental aspect of struggling with an idea and spending the time to research it to learn enough to ask specific questions and then figure out the answers (with or without help) is what is involved in scientific investigations.

[deleted-30766]

Thanks for the reply!!

I have gone to several different websites looking around and I came across this one... http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#1mixing... They have an intresting section regarding SVO vs. Biodiesel(I was also considering comparing it to regular petrodiesel). I was now wondering what you thought of maybe using an model airplane motor(so i don't have to worry about clogged filters on vehicles that are normally used) and testing the differences and similarites, pros, and cons of each, but i would still make my own biodiesel to test it.Ummm...there are also a lot of different "recipes" as they call them on that cite... I am kinda confused as to which ones i should use of if there were better ones out there. I did think of inventing my own recipe but... after looking at the website I am now not leaning that way because this process seems pretty dangerous and I am not sure how smart that would be seeing how i have never delt with chemicals like that!

Thanks again for the help on the project!!!

[deleted-30766]

Yes, I know I just wanted to be sure and cover all my bases because I wasn't sure what science it would be considered... If you look at my post on the other one you will see that from what I am thinking right now it is turning into more of an enviromental science fair project!!

[deleted-30766]

Another idea has struck me like a lightening bolt!!!!

What if i changed variables in the recipe for making biodiesel itself, seeing what makes the most efficent biodiesel, that way i can easily make the project as easy or as hard as i want it to, while still feeling that i am controlling the experiment....Just a thought.... A friend of mine made a generator using 7 variables last year(it sounded very difficult)....

Your Spontaneous Thinker(I thought of this while talking to my mom and eating frosted flakes!!)

[deleted-30766]

Another thought..... What if i made several "recipes" of biodiesel and compared them to the quality standards that have been set????

Your Spontaneous Thinker

[deleted-71588]

BEWARE: The http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#1mixing article has some unsupportable claims in it. For example:

for every gallon of SVO you use, that's one gallon of fossil-fuel saved, and that much less climate-changing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Unfortunately, many articles on biodiesel have a lot of non-science in them.

SVO is a hydro-carbon chain as is petro-diesel, so if you completely burn them, the amount of carbon dioxide produced (hopefully you don't get any carbon monoxide) is a function of how many carbon atoms involved. The amount of energy produced as heat will be a function of how many carbon atoms are converted to CO2. If you don't completely burn the hydro-carbons, you cause hydro-carbon polution and don't recover all of the energy from the fuel. Gasoline cars today have catalytic converters in their exhaust paths to burn any remaining hydro-carbons while most diesel engines don't. Certainly any simple model airplane diesel engine won't have any catalytic converter.

In order to turn your raw ideas into a good Science Fair Project, you need to do some thinking about the Scientific Method. Even if you come up with a scientifically great hypothesis that would provide great scientific information, if you can't test it with the resources you have in the time period you have with the budget you have, it isn't a good Science Fair project.

Your idea of using a model airplane engine as a test engine is worth thinking about some more. What scientific questions could you answer by using it as part of your test aparatus? What viscosity is model airplane fuel? How can you transform something like vegetable oil into a similar viscosity? What is the flash point of model airplane fuel? Does heating vegetable oil to decrease the viscosity cause the flash point to be too low to be safe in your model airplane engine? How much energy does it take to convert the vegetable oil to have properties that will work in the airplane engine? Is the scientific question you end up trying to answer relavant to potential biodiesel applications in general? Does the relavancy matter to you and your scientific investigation? These are just some of the side issues that I thought of without much effort.

[deleted-30766]

I thought about a lot of the questions regarding SVO because upon looking a several other sites.... it doesn't look to reliable to put into an engine, and I am not sure I would want to buy an model airplane engine and have it gum up and stop working!!! As far as testing the viscostiy etc. I am a swimmer, and a famaily up at the pool started a biodiesel company a few years ago. I am planning on going up there today and talking to them to see if they have any other ideas, or even if I could use some of there equipment to test the quality of the biodiesel I create.

And yes I am planning on going to Barnes and Noble and picking up several books on the topic because of the problem of the internet not being very reliable..... My mom had surgery and she currently can't drive.... so I am currently doing what I can from the house(i.e. searching the web).Is the majority of the information as far as you read on the site accurate. I will be careful when reading on it, but as I am still learning some of the terms in this field, I have found it quite useful because it explains things to me in a simple language, though I don't want to read it any more if the information is incorrect!

Thanks for you continued help!!
A

[deleted-71447]

Sorry for the delayed response. I will try to answer your question:

Is the majority of the information as far as you read on the site accurate? I will be careful when reading on it, but as I am still learning some of the terms in this field, I have found it quite useful because it explains things to me in a simple language, though I don't want to read it any more if the information is incorrect!

That web page seems like a good source of information about how to make biofuel, but it does not claim to be a source of scientific information. For scientific info about biofuel and related issues, I'd recommend the wikipedia page which has good general information as well as some citations from peer reviewed journals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issues_rel ... o_biofuels
The language on those pages is a bit more technical, but we should be able to help you understand anything that is confusing at first glance.

Looking forward to hearing more about your project,
Chris

[deleted-30766]

Thanks!I am getting ready to go read the Wikipedia pages right now.

So, let me get this straight. I can use that website for biodiesel"recipes", but I need to find other sources, like wikipedia, when I am looking for the scientific in's and out's of it.

A

[deleted-71447]

You're welcome. Yes, I think you will need some other sources of information. Wikipedia is just one possibility, and, as with any web page, it is probably not the best possible source. For more info on how to conduct your background research for your project, please read these sections of our web page:
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... plan.shtml
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... tion.shtml
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... aphy.shtml
http://sciencebuddies.com/science-fair- ... aper.shtml
The "Finding information" page should be especially helpful.
Good luck!
Chris

[deleted-30766]

Ok, So I am finally back up and running, after going to vacation and camps etc. for the last couple of weeks!!!

Would you say that making a homemade Test-batch mini-processor is a smart idea? Are they reliable if made right? The reason I am asking is I have found one that looks easy enough to make but who knows if it will work!!!
Here it is:

This mini-processor is easy to make from not very much, mostly kichen stuff and a couple of tools. It's effective and safe, closed and virtually air-tight, with no splashing or leaking of hot fumes. It will make one- or two-litre batches for test-batch or demonstration purposes, suitable for single-stage or two-stage processes, with full agitation and temperature control. And you can take it anywhere.

There's no need to follow this prescription exactly -- use what's to hand, improvise. For instance, if you don't have a plastic drill-grip that will fit a plug spanner to use for the drill-stand as described below, we made a second stand using a piece of angle iron and a strip of 3/32" steel half an inch wide bent to fit round the drill and clamped in place with bolts. If you don't have a welder or can't make a steel stand, make a stand out of bits of wood bolted together and grip the drill in a portable vice clamped to the vertical. Or something. A crock-pot might do instead of a spaghetti cooker and a portable gas ring. Our gas ring died so now we use a hot-plate instead. You might find a way of using a sealed bearing in the lid rather than a wooden bush. And so on. Let us know!


Materials
Three-litre HDPE container with two lids;
Spaghetti-cooker -- the bottom and sides of the inner pot are full of holes like a collander;
Electric drill;
Plastic grip for drill;
Stand for the drill;
Sparkplug spanner;
Stirrer;
Portable gas cooker (canned gas) or electric hot-plate;
Two half-litre PET bottles.
Cost -- in our case, zero: this was all discarded junk, including the drill, and all in perfect working order.

The drill stand is rigged from scrap angle iron and welded together, but it could just as easily be bolted. The bit that holds the drill consists of the tough plastic grip that came with the drill, a plug spanner, which conveniently fits inside the grip, held in place by two bolts (extra holes mean you can move the drill in and out from the stand), and the plug spanner is welded to an extra bit of angle iron bolted inside the vertical section, again with extra holes above and below for adjustment.


The stirrer is a length of 6mm steel rod with a slot cut in the end and a piece of flat steel brazed into the slot, cut to size so it fits through the larger of the two HDPE container lids.


The lid is fitted with a wooden bush cut from hardwood with a 6mm hole drilled through it to take the stirrer shaft. Make it a tight-fitting hole, then heat a piece of the same steel rod as the stirrer and push it carefully through the hole -- not too hot, just enough to scorch the surface of the wood inside the hole, not char it. Add a few drops of biodiesel for lubrication.

Cut a square hole in the lid the exact size and shape of the bush; cut another hole in the lid insert. Saw two shallow grooves on all four side of the bush, immediately above and below where it will fit the lid. Push the bush into the hole in the lid; push the insert into the lid around the bush. Secure with epoxy resin -- push the resin firmly into the grooves to hold the bush in position. Some silicon round the seams helps.

Heat up the oil in a saucepan on the gas cooker and pour it into the mini-processor.

Slide the business end of the stirrer inside the processor and slide the bush in the lid over the other end; screw the lid on firmly. Fill the two half-litre PET bottles with water at or above the processing temperature. Put the processor into the spaghetti cooker; wedge in position with a PET bottle on either side. Add hot water to the cooker to just below the height of the oil -- as much water as it will take before the processor begins to float. Use the gas flame to adjust the water temperature to the processing temperature, then turn off the gas.

Attach the drill to the stand, tighten the stirrer in the chuck, switch on and start stirring.

I have also found a pretty simple "recipe" from the same site.

Now I am planning on making the biodiesel and then running it through the small engine as I have said before to compare it with SVO, diesel, or whatever I decide. So now I have a few questions:

1. Since a major part of my experiment is actually making the biodiesel, should I make the biodiesel multiple times, in order to get reliable results, or since I am running it through an engine does it need to be the same batch? But if i use the same recipe? Oh, I have no idea???!!!

2. KOH vs. NaOH? I am thinking right now that I am going to do KOH because from what I have read it is easier to use???

3. I have heard a lot about "Quality Test"? Should I run some of these test on the biodiesel before I run it through my engine, to make sure it passes???

Thanks a ton!!!

A

[MelissaB]

Hi,

These are good questions. I have no experience making anything like this, so I can't tell you whether or not it will work. But, I can help with some of your other questions:

1. You are right--both batch and type of fuel are both variables--there may be differences between batches and there may be a difference between biodisel and the other fuels you test. Depending on how much time and materials you have, you can test multiple samples from the same batch, test one sample from each of several batches, or test several samples from several batches (and thus have two independent variables). The last one would be most thorough, but it just depends on how much work you want to put in. If it's fairly easy to make multiple batches, I would definitely recommend doing one sample each from several batches rather than multiple samples from the same batch.

2. Again, I have no experience, but it does sound like KOH might be easier from the websites I looked at.

3. It's probably a good idea to do at least a simple quality test before running fuel through an engine, yes--that way if something happens while you're making the fuel you'll know before you test it in your engine and can make a new batch.

Hope this helps!

[deleted-30766]

Thanks aTon!!!!!!

I am currently asking my dad to help me assemble the mixer base thing(it requires welding). I need to order the supplies and get some of the paper work done (i.e. Problem, Hypothesis, Materials, Controls and Variables etc.). I will post back when I get the chance to tell ya'll how things are coming along!!!


Thanks Again!!
A

[deleted-30766]

Ok so i was reading on another website about processors. It said that small homemade processors are very dangerous.

Yes this is the same quote i put on here a few days ago but it was wondering if this is safe enough to conduct a science fair project using it.

This mini-processor is easy to make from not very much, mostly kichen stuff and a couple of tools. It's effective and safe, closed and virtually air-tight, with no splashing or leaking of hot fumes. It will make one- or two-litre batches for test-batch or demonstration purposes, suitable for single-stage or two-stage processes, with full agitation and temperature control. And you can take it anywhere.

There's no need to follow this prescription exactly -- use what's to hand, improvise. For instance, if you don't have a plastic drill-grip that will fit a plug spanner to use for the drill-stand as described below, we made a second stand using a piece of angle iron and a strip of 3/32" steel half an inch wide bent to fit round the drill and clamped in place with bolts. If you don't have a welder or can't make a steel stand, make a stand out of bits of wood bolted together and grip the drill in a portable vice clamped to the vertical. Or something. A crock-pot might do instead of a spaghetti cooker and a portable gas ring. Our gas ring died so now we use a hot-plate instead. You might find a way of using a sealed bearing in the lid rather than a wooden bush. And so on. Let us know!


Materials
Three-litre HDPE container with two lids;
Spaghetti-cooker -- the bottom and sides of the inner pot are full of holes like a collander;
Electric drill;
Plastic grip for drill;
Stand for the drill;
Sparkplug spanner;
Stirrer;
Portable gas cooker (canned gas) or electric hot-plate;
Two half-litre PET bottles.
Cost -- in our case, zero: this was all discarded junk, including the drill, and all in perfect working order.

The drill stand is rigged from scrap angle iron and welded together, but it could just as easily be bolted. The bit that holds the drill consists of the tough plastic grip that came with the drill, a plug spanner, which conveniently fits inside the grip, held in place by two bolts (extra holes mean you can move the drill in and out from the stand), and the plug spanner is welded to an extra bit of angle iron bolted inside the vertical section, again with extra holes above and below for adjustment.


The stirrer is a length of 6mm steel rod with a slot cut in the end and a piece of flat steel brazed into the slot, cut to size so it fits through the larger of the two HDPE container lids.


The lid is fitted with a wooden bush cut from hardwood with a 6mm hole drilled through it to take the stirrer shaft. Make it a tight-fitting hole, then heat a piece of the same steel rod as the stirrer and push it carefully through the hole -- not too hot, just enough to scorch the surface of the wood inside the hole, not char it. Add a few drops of biodiesel for lubrication.

Cut a square hole in the lid the exact size and shape of the bush; cut another hole in the lid insert. Saw two shallow grooves on all four side of the bush, immediately above and below where it will fit the lid. Push the bush into the hole in the lid; push the insert into the lid around the bush. Secure with epoxy resin -- push the resin firmly into the grooves to hold the bush in position. Some silicon round the seams helps.

Heat up the oil in a saucepan on the gas cooker and pour it into the mini-processor.

Slide the business end of the stirrer inside the processor and slide the bush in the lid over the other end; screw the lid on firmly. Fill the two half-litre PET bottles with water at or above the processing temperature. Put the processor into the spaghetti cooker; wedge in position with a PET bottle on either side. Add hot water to the cooker to just below the height of the oil -- as much water as it will take before the processor begins to float. Use the gas flame to adjust the water temperature to the processing temperature, then turn off the gas.

Attach the drill to the stand, tighten the stirrer in the chuck, switch on and start stirring.

I am glad i read this because i was getting ready to start the project!

If ya'll find that this processor is very unsafe do ya'll know of any alternative processors that make small batches(i.e. 1 or 2 liters), and that are cheap(since it is only for science fair)!!

Thanks so Much!!
A

[deleted-30766]

Hey,

For alternative ways of making biodiesel, would it be better to use magnetic stirrers or to shake it by hand because of the sparks emitted from the drill?

Just a Thought
A

[deleted-30766]

Hey Ya'll

I just met my science teacher. She suggested going towards the enviromental science aspect more by testing the smog that comes out of it by:

Putting it in a box of some sort then hooking up a tube to the engine and putting a filter at the other end of the tube to see the differences in diesel and biodiesel.

I guess I see where she is going but how would you compare the "smog" by color, oder or by doing a test of some sort on it?

Do you know where you can find more information on something like this?

Thanks a lot!!!
A

[Trader]

I've just been looking at this thread and so far, congratulations on all the progress you have made!

Just in response to your latest post (very good questions!), I agree with your science teacher that environmental sciences would definitely be a relevant and good direction to carry this science project -- environmental science projects often have very practical applications that will greatly benefit you in the science fair.

Now when considering the difference between diesel and biodisel, here is an informal article that offers the most basic background on the effect of biodiesel and diesel on air quality once they are released:

http://www.helium.com/items/646100-fuel ... el-exhaust

If you are going to head in the direction of environmental sciences and would want to compare the "smog", color and odor may be an interesting direction, but perhaps measuring the chemicals in the air released and its impact on air quality. Some sites below explain the basics of chemicals released by biodiesels and diesel:

http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/diesel/re ... lution.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 155c342e84 > an interesting analysis on biodiesel emission effects on air quality.

I will try to dig up more articles of more advanced research regarding exactly what the effects of diesel and biodisel are on air quality. While the basics of what chemicals biodiesel/diesel emissions release, you can definitely make a remarkable project about testing the quantity of a certain chemical released explained by your analysis of the difference between different biodiesels, or a comparative analysis between biodiesel and diesel.

Sounds very cool! Keep the great work going

[deleted-30766]

Thanks for the help!!

Now after reading one of the articles, what about hooking up the engine to a tube and then running it into a plexi-glass box filled with plants. This would see what effect the emmissions have on plants.

Now I really don't like the plant idea... so here is another option...

You can connect a tube to the end of the engine and a filter on the other end. After you collect the emmision particles you would scrape them into a petri dish to see if and what type of bacteria grow over a period of time. In application you could say that this is the kind of bacteria that grows on plants, animals fur etc.

1. How would you identify what kind of bacteria grows without sending it to a lab?

Just let me know what ya'll think!!

Thanks again,

A

[Trader]

That's an interesting direction to pursue! I love your ideas

Bacteriology is something I happen to be better in ^^. When identifying bacteria without 'sending it to a lab', usually it involves performing a Gram stain and then checking the morphology of the bacteria (after making a streak plate) under a microscope.

If you're interested in pursuing an experiment involving bacteria (existence/growth/what types) under certain types of diesel, I'd be more than happy to show you a lot of things (since I've done a lot in bacteriology). It also greatly increases the potential for a more unique project!

As for the idea regarding taking emission particles on the plant, it would definitely be interesting to compare the bacteria that grows on the plant with diesel emissions compared to a plant under "normal conditions" (control group). In addition to the normal fungi and bacteria that appear in "normal" air quality, there's a lot that could happen w/ the addition of biodiesel!

I am very excited about your progress and your abundance of ideas! It's great

[deleted-30766]

Thanks!!

The only reason I am wanting to identify what types of bacteria, is because certain types of bacteria may not harm a plant. So I would like to distinguish the difference. Would the project be just as good if i grew the bacteria and compared apearence, and how much there is?

The next thing... can you even grow bacteria off of the filtered emissions or does it have to be biodiesel before it is run through the engine?

Thanks a ton!!

A

[Trader]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen comparing the bacteria grown on plants as they are subject to different types of diesel emissions is definitely an interesting way to pursue the problem. In terms of the background research I am not sure if bacteria growth on plants (as a result of a change in air due to emissions) is a noticeable factor in impeding plant growth -- however, we will not know until we experiment! I think that when we do not know about some factor and it seems to logically make sense (that different organisms will grow on the plant as a result of different air quality), that it is DEFINITELY an interesting project (not to mention very original!).

So it would definitely be just as good!

The next thing... can you even grow bacteria off of the filtered emissions or does it have to be biodiesel before it is run through the engine?

Sorry not sure I understand the question here. If you wanted to grow bacteria off the filtered emissions that would mean that bacteria would be pre-existing in the biodisel? If this is case, then you can measure the impact of these different biodiesels on plant growth.

I believe that bacteria may be grown then released as part of the biodiesel emission (but I don't think this is what you mean?) -- but this would require an advanced setting as bacteria in the air (especially ones that can be potentially hazardous) is one of the last things you need.

Let me know what you mean, and good job on the thinking process! You're on your way to a very good project.

[deleted-30766]

Sorry its been awhile...my computers been down!!

What about burning the biodiesel in lamps instead of an engine. Then you can change the type of oil, and do KOH vs. NaOH. This way you can see the biodiesel burning to observe differences in the flames, but you can also compare how long it takes each to run.

Thanks
A

[Trader]

Biodiesel in lamps sounds like a great idea! It is a practical application and indeed you can change the type of oil as well as change (which here means changing KOH or NaOH).

Keep everyone updated with what you find! With these results we will be able to establish the basic ground for further research. For example, once we notice the differences between using KOH or NaOH as catalysts, we can compare how these factor into the production of many types of biodisels, and how those emissions compare.

[deleted-30766]

Ok, here is what i'm doing(it's approved by my teacher and everything)!!

(not in these specific words but...)

Which runs longer and produces more joules diesel, biodiesel made of KOH, or biodiesel made of NaOH?

*this is tested with the oil lamp!!

[Trader]

Sounds like a great, sound research question!

At this point you have already come very far in an experiment -- you've narrowed it down to a precise idea! Once the experiments start one result often leads to 10 more ideas.

Good job! Can't wait to hear you get started on the experimentation!

[deleted-30766]

My science project is well underway with one batch of biodiesel made and done.... one problem for my research paper I need to put my MSDS sheets in a bibliography in MLA format....how do you do this???

Thanks!

-A