Fire Retardants

[RichardH]

For a science project, I'm designing a project to test the efficiency of different chemical fire retardant molecules. However, I am completely clueless on where I can obtain the following types of fire retardants/treated wood:
(based on these elements/types)
halogenated
red phosphorus
nitrogen
intumescent
aluminum trihydrate (Al2H3)

Also, I am still in the process of designing an experiment for this, if the materials are realisticly obtainable. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your time,
Richard

[deleted-71709]

Hello Richard,

I am not an expert on fire retardants, although I have worked with my product certification specialists regarding fire retardant properties of electronic printed circuit boards. In the electronics industry, for years we have used halogenated materials, principally bromides, as fire retardants for the epoxy and fiberglass composite substrates of printed circuit boards. But due to environmental concerns in recent years, we have gone away from those materials.

For your inquiry, I did a quick "Google" search and found quite a lot. Here are some web sites you might want to check out:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... nancy-pbde

http://www.plastemart.com/upload/Litera ... issues.asp

http://www.selah.k12.wa.us/soar/sciproj2006/LizB.html

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf79147904.tip.html

Here are the addresses of a couple companies that specialize in selling flame retardant materials. Perhaps you could get them to provide you some materials to support your student research.

http://www.flamestop.com/

http://www.specialchem4polymers.com/tc/ ... index.aspx

Good luck. This should be an interesting project.

[deleted-71360]

For easy to find materials you might try your local fabric store. Cloth intended for childrens sleepwear must be flame retardant, some curtain and household items are also, and then there are always BBQ mittins.

At the hardware store there are asphalt shingles with a class B rating and cedar shingles and shakes treated to become a class B. On my house I have a class A rated roof that is treated shakes on top of 1/4-inch gypsum board. For reference, the sidewalk is also rated as class A. My roof may still burn due to falling embers from a wildfire, but it will take at least an hour to get down to the plywood deck under the gypsum board, which is long enough for the local fire department to put it out.

You may also want to consider fire-resistant plants such as cactus and succulants. Compare them to pine trees or dry sagebrush. California also has lots of dry brush sometimes called grease wood because of its oil content. That is the stuff that makes dramagic TV news coverage.

If you are looking for firefighting chemistry, Halon works great, but you cannot get it for new installations. Carbon dioxide works great, but it will suffocate you too in a confined space. Dry powder (look up ABC powder) works good too, but makes a huge mess that may be as bad as the fire. You can always use water, it works by taking the heat away and can even put out gasoline fires if done properly.

[RichardH]

I'm looking into both suggestions, thanks very much!

[RichardH]

I've decided and done much research regarding certain fire retardants, and I have decided to experiment with:
Aluminum trihydate: Al₂H₃
Bromine-based (specifics?)
Red phosphorus
(Perhaps Nitrogen or Intumescent, having trouble finding details)
However, I've had no luck in getting a hold of these materials; any assistance on that matter is much needed and appreciated.
Thank you!

Also, researching on a procedure to test!

[deleted-71360]

NO, NO, NO. Repeat after me.

Red phosphorus is dangerous stuff, leave it alone. See the material safety data sheet at :
http://alemis.us.airliquide.com/ChemSaf ... 7652_1.PDF.
This is something that needs supervision by a trained and experienced adult.

As for the other chemicals, they are rather harmless.

Aluminum trihydate is probably OK to experiment with. Start with the local drug store or an nternet search. Also look at \:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_Dry_Chemical. You may get a small amount at a fire extinguisher servicing company, or buy a small one-time extinguisher and use it (do not try to take it apart).

For Bromine-based materials, do a search on Halon. Halon is a family of bromine compounds used for fire extinguishers, however, they are out of favor and no longer manufactured or imported because of their ozone effects. There is a large inventory and it is still available, just very expensive. Talk to a fire extinguisher expert about this.

For Intumescent products, talk to a fire suppression consultant, look in the yellow pages under fire or architectural consultants.

Nitrogen is not too good. It works by displacing oxygen, so you put the fire out and if your are in a confined space with it, you may put yourself out too. The good part is that once the fire is out and things have cooled off, just ventilate and return. Same with carbon dixode and Halon.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[deleted-71712]

Richard,

Sounds like you have a fun project coming together, but please do take Bob's notes about safety seriously. I would suggest contacting either your local fire department or, if you live near a university that does a lot of research, someone in an office called something like "Environmental Health and Safety". If you describe this science project, someone might be interested in mentoring you and you might even be able to use their facilities to do the experiment in a controlled and safe way. Firefighters have to practice putting out fires, so they have some kind of safe facility for that training. The EHS office at my university -- in addition to things like disposing of waste chemicals -- offers classes on how to use fire extinguishers for people who work in laboratories. When I went to a class, they took us out to an empty parking lot and lit fires in a special box covered with a grating and attached to a gas tank, and we each got to put out the fire. It was a safe place to do that because asphalt isn't flammable (like a wood or grass surface) and they had plenty of hoses around, plus they could turn off the gas supply from a safe distance away. Also, the conditions (like feed rate of the gas) were well controlled, which is important for a science experiment. I would NOT recommend trying to build a box like that or anything gas-fueled yourself, because there are special design requirements to prevent the flame from backing up the hose into the tank, etc -- but if you can find a place that has a nice controlled source of fire with fire safety experts, I think they could really help you with your project. And I bet they'd be happy to talk to a student interested in their work!

Amanda