BIO DIESEL

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[donnahardy2]

Hi,

This is an extremely challenging and vast project. Each part of the project, from constructing the building, planting, watering, and growing the plants, harvesting the seeds, extracting the oil from the plants, and converting it into biodiesel would be a major project on its own. Completing the entire project would require several individuals and more than one school year.

Please let me know what assistance is needed for this project. Here is a project from the science buddies website on a biodiesel project:

https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p032.shtml

Here are some of the questions that I would ask before proceeding with this project.

1. How will light be provided to the plants?
2. How much soil would be required for each of the 400,000 plants for optimum growth?
3. How will the plants be watered?
4. How will you extract the oil from the seeds?
5. How will you separate glycerol from the biodiesel?
6. What equipment will you need to make the biodiesel?
7. How will you compost the plant waste? Would any other fertilizer be needed?
8. How would you construct the windmills and solar panels?


Just making the diesel fuel from oil is a project that requires several weeks. If you are going to actually do this project, I would recommend focusing on just one part of the project. Here is a paper that describes some of the challenges in using jatropa oil for biodiesel:

http://www.waset.org/journals/waset/v50/v50-85.pdf

I hope these comments are helpful. Please let me know if you need any additional information.


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[PRAKASHKUMAR]

can you tell me how much will yield because i am not getting the proper calculations.
and also is jatropha good for bio diesel or should i change it?

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

How are you doing your calculations? What values did you start with? The authors of the paper, which I included in my last post, obtained a yield of 76%.

There are some problems with using jatropha oil for biodiesel, primarily viscosity and the authors of the paper did address this problem in their paper. But there are problems with using any type of oil for biodiesel, so you have picked a good project to work on. Please also notice the analysis methods that they used to analyze the oil. Will you be able to do any of these methods for your project? In science projects, it is important to measure your results so you can report quantitative values.

I recommend that you do as much background reading as possible on this topic. That will be a good way to find out about any other problems that you may encounter, and will also help you understand the science behind your project.

Jatropha plants can survive under adverse conditions, but they will produce seeds when grown under optimum conditions. Since Jatropha is not a domesticated plant, working on optimum conditions for growing this plant could be a project on its own. Find out as much as you can about growing this plant as this will be important for your project. Do you have a method for measuring the amount of oil in the raw seeds?

What is the primary purpose of your project? Since you are in school, I think that the grade you earn for doing the project will be important. Does your project meet the requirements that your teacher has presented? Is following the scientific method and doing a carefully controlled experiment important for the assignment? This is more of an engineering project and that can make an excellent project.

I would be happy to provide advice for this project, but it would be helpful if you could include more details about what you are doing. For example, for the problem you are having with the calculations on yield, it would be helpful if I knew how you were doing the calculations. I would be able to give you more helpful advice.

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[donnahardy2]

Hi,

You have asked a relevant question about your project. The actual yield for jatropha seeds is a subject of great controversy. The following forum seems to address the problem of variable yield, from 100 to 8000 Kg of seems for hectare. I could not find a scientific reference on this topic, but here is some information that might be useful to you:

http://www.biodieselnow.com/world/f/219/t/18628.aspx

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... VU20110121

Here is a report from a company that has worked on optimizing yields of jatropha:

http://biodiesel-jatropha-oil-extractio ... pha-seeds/

Here’s a slide presentation, with actual numbers, showing a yield from 7 Kg/hectare in year one to 279 kg in year 5. The variation in yields for 8-year old plants was 420 to 1368 Kg/ha.

http://jatropha.pro/PDF%20bestanden/FAC ... ha-RUG.pdf

Since there has been a history of variable yields, this would be an important problem for you to address in your project. How are you going to ensure sufficient yield to ensure success of the project? Jatropha plants apparently require lots of water, fertilizer, and care to ensure success.

Can you confirm the description of your project? Are you actually growing the 400,000 plants in a 1.5 x 1.5 m area? And is your project idea is to grow the plants inside a building? I do not understand how you are going to grow the plants in a 20 storied building. How are you going to build the building, and how will it support the soil and provide the water and light necessary for plant growth. Please explain this part of your project.

I am not familiar with the requirements for a science competition in your area. However, I think this project could be developed further and entered either as an engineering project or an experimental project. Please refer to the rules and regulations of the competition you want to enter and make sure the project you are doing meets the requirements. You will probably need to do more work and demonstrate that the idea you have will actually work. If you have designed a new Jatropha nut processor, for example, you could demonstrate that it actually works better than the conventional method. You would need to take some Jatropha seeds and shell and crush them with your equipment and measure the results. That would actually be an excellent project and would be an important contribution to the entire problem of using Jatropha seeds for biodiesel.

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[donnahardy2]

Hi,

Thanks for the explanation. Now, what are you going to actually do for your project? Are you going to do a pilot study on the feasibility of your project and grow some jatropha plants and harvest the seeds and make biodiesel on a small scale? You need to demonstrate that your ideas will work. Please let me know what the scope of your assignment is for this project and what the rules are for entering into the competition that you are interested in. You want to make sure that your project qualifies for the competition.

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[donnahardy2]

Hi Prakash,

What kind of survey are you going to do? If you visit a place where jatropha is grown, you can ask for details of the yield for the first 5 years of growth and use that information to calculate the potential yield of biodiesel. The science fair judges will appreciate having information that is based on real data.

Your project is original because it is so comprehensive, however many people have made biodiesel from jatropha before, so the basic project has been done before. One thing that I have noticed in reading about this topic is that there are a number of problems with using jatropha seeds to make biodiesel. You could make your project completely original by addressing one of these problems and presenting a creative solution, and then doing an experiment with measurable results to demonstrate that your method would solve the problem. One problem is the variable yield of jatropha seeds; one problem is extracting the oil from the seeds; one problem is the handling of a jatropha seeds because of their toxicity; another problem is the quality of the biodiesel produced from these seeds. How are you going to measure the quality of the biodiesel that you produce? Is there anything in your project that has not been done before?

Another suggestion I have is to do more background reading and find as many scientific articles on the various topics included in your project. You will want the science fair judges to know that you know what has been done before. A science project should consider previous research and should add something to the knowledge of the subject. The science fair judges will appreciate a complete bibliography.

You should definitely do more research on your proposal to grow jatropha in a 20 story building using reflected light. Do you know what wavelengths of light are required for photosynthesis? Does reflected light contain the required wavelengths? Also, how much does 95 x 95 x 1 meter or wet soil weigh? Is it possible to construct an open building with this weight of soil? If possible, you should construct a model of the building with the specified proportion of soil and put it outside during a storm, just to make sure the building will survive. You should also try growing a jatropha plant with only reflected light.

Do you have a detailed protocol for every step of your project? It would be a good idea to write up a detailed materials and methods section before proceeding with your project.

Please let me know if you have any questions about any of these suggestions.


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[PRAKASHKUMAR]

those who liked my project please also like it on facebook on
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Viprs-Bio ... 5076189599

any suggestion or questions please ask?

[donnahardy2]

Hi Prakash,

You project is excellent. You have obviously put a lot of work into the project already. This is the most ambitious project I have ever seen, so I know it will be challenging. I encourage you to do a small pilot experiment on all of the steps before you do the large scale project. It will save time and help you solve any possible problems early. Please let us know at Science Buddies if you need advice on any of the details.

Good luck!


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

sir
we did an experiment and we got good results.
we took 1kg of jatropha seeds and crushed it to get oil. we got around 68% oil ie., 680mL.
we converted it into biodiesel and tested in a diesel engine and it worked.

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

Your results are excellent. Congratulations. Your yield is very high. Are you going to scale up to a larger quantity of jatropha seeds?

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

no sir , we will not go on a more higher scale.
we will now take it for a competition in august .
we have made the 3d model and observations regarding jatropha.
we also conducted a survey and we got good results

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

sir,
we went for competition on regional level. we lost there.
they said this project is for international level and it should not be on regional level.

sir,
i am very angry at it. so i thought it to take it to a higher level .
is there and competition where i can send it . my project is about FUTURE BIODIESEL from algae, jatropha and pongamia glabra

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

Thanks for letting me know what happened. I’m sorry you didn’t win anything. I don’t think I understand the comments of the judges about regional and international level, but I’m sure your project was judged fairly compared to the other projects that were entered. At one of the science fairs I judged at earlier this year, there were almost 70 projects entered and we were allowed to only award one first place ribbon. There were many excellent projects that did not receive an award, and I’m sure there was a similar situation at your science fair. Did you get a chance to look at the other projects to see what type of project did win?

You did a lot of work on this project and I’m sure you learned a lot in doing it. If you enter a project next year, please do contact Science Buddies a little earlier at the beginning of the project before you start it. I think we will be able to help you through step-by-step in designing a really good experiment. In my experience, it is better to do a very detailed experiment on a single topic, rather than design a very complex project that covers many topics. One problem with this project was that we were not able to find many scientific references that could be used to develop the project.

Anyway, I did enjoy working with you on this project, and I learned a lot from reading about the topic. Good luck to you in the future!


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

sir,
but according to me , our project was not judged properly.
during our explanations we asked them "do you have any questions regarding the project?" two times. they said "no questions, it is simple"
after results came, we went to get the mark sheet the judge said " i did not understand the meaning of reflectors & ventilators. the building i designed is not valid to be constructed.i will search it on net." then he said " it is not of regional level , it is of international level and take it for competition on international level."
he even asked for the project papers.

others projects were also good . almost copied directly from net.

so i want to prove him wrong.
so i want to participate in any other competitions .it may be related to climate change or future fuels.

how can we develop this project more?
what can be scientific references to this project?

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

You are right that if the judges did not understand something about your project, they should have asked more questions. However, it sounds like they did take the time to make comments that should be helpful for you if you want to continue. In defense of the judges, I have to say that it is very difficult to judge with a roomful of very excellent projects. It is usually necessary to look at how the projects were done and presented and quite often the only difference in the winning projects is in the very small details.

The comment about the level of competition (regional/international) makes me think that your project may not have followed the guidelines of the specific competition. Your project is more of an engineering/demonstration project and not a classic experimental project. In some competitions, engineering projects are acceptable and in some competitions, an experiment is required. So before you continue with the project, please check the rules of the specific competition you are entering and make sure that it follows the guidelines. If you have a question about this, please post the rules and I will explain this to you.

The comment from the judge saying that the building is not valid to be constructed is something that you need to address. I had asked you about the building design and you had mentioned that you had it reviewed by an architect. In your project presentation, did you show evidence that the building could be constructed? Did you build a scale model to prove the design would work? You need to do something that would show evidence that your design is valid. Otherwise, your project would be much better without the building.

If you recall, we did have some difficulty in finding scientific references for your topic. One problem with using jatropha to produce biodiesel is that this idea has been tried and has not been particularly successful. If you go back through my comments, you will find several of the problems mentioned. If I were to do this project, I would pick just one of the problems and design an experiment that would show that the process could be improved. The experimental would be carefully controlled, the results quantitative, it would include controls, and it would be repeated at least twice. If you want to pursue this, pick out one of the problems, and we can look for scientific references and that will give you ideas for designing your experiment.

I hope this helps.


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

the topic we choose was agriculture and technology and sub theme biofuels.
the rule are in the attachment.

in my presentation i showed the evidence that the building could be constructed.
i also showed the blueprint of the building and approval from on of the largest construction company.

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

Thanks for posting the rules for your science fair. You are correct; your project did fully comply with all of the rules including the category and the project presentation, which could be an exhibit or a model that demonstrated an innovative/ inexpensive design or technique. Your design was very original and innovative and you supplied documentation that it would work, so your project should have been seriously considered for a prize.

The judging criteria included “involvement and children’s own creativity and imagination, 20%” and “originality and innovations in the exhibits.” 15%. And I would agree with you that your project was very creative and original. Your project would have also scored vey high in “technical skill/workmanship15%,” “utility and education value, 15%” and “economic aspect and durability, 10%.”

If you had not had the comments back from the judges, I might have thought that you would need to polish the presentation and add some references to improve the scoring, and that maybe you had missed a prize by half a point or so compared to another project that did win. However, the comments you received suggest that the judges did not think your design would work; you had presented some evidence, but it was not strong enough. So, if you are going to work on this project again, there are probably two criteria that you should concentrate on to improve your chance of winning: “scientific thought, /principle/approach, 15%” and “presentation-explanation, and demonstration, 10%.”

This may require some thought and additional research on your part. You need to find more scientific evidence that will show that the building can be built, that jatropha plants could grow in the shade with reflectors, and that is it economical to use jatropha to manufacture biodiesel. In addition to using more scientific literature and principles to support your ideas, you need to change the presentation to show how the idea will work. What do you think you can do to make a judge believe in your idea?

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

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[donnahardy2]

Hi,

Thanks for describing your presentation. It sounds like it was very comprehensive and well organized. Here are some ideas that you can consider to make it more scientific. In your presentation, did you make your suggestions for utilizing land, farming plants, building the building, water purification, the biogas plant, the parabolic trough and windmill based on scientific references? For example, you can find information on the light, water, nutrient, and soil requirements for plants in botany textbooks. You would then need to show how your plan met all of the requirements for plant growth. You would need to do this for every aspect of your project. As a science fair judge, I always look for a project based on scientific principles and I think that adding more of these to your present project would help. And doing more reading might help you think of some more details to add to your presentation.

I think the way that you have combined all of the concepts makes your project original, which was an important criterion for the judging. Two parts of your project, the building and growing plants with reflectors are two parts of the project that would make many judges skeptical of your ideas. So building a model or doing a demonstration of these ideas would also be beneficial. Adding scientific references and explaining the scientific principles would help you support your ideas.

Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

yes i made suggestions in my presentation for utilizing land, farming plants, building the building, water purification, the biogas plant, the parabolic trough and windmill.

what all scientific researches can be added to this project?

is there any online competition where i can post this project???

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

I will try to give you an example. Here is a research paper on using jatropha oil to make biodiesel. It’s not the best research paper because it just compared the experimental results with theoretical results. A better paper would have compared a published method with one or more new experimental methods, however this was all I could find on this topic. The article does include useful discussion, a bibliography of other research papers and it was published recently.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/12 ... 27-132.pdf

To incorporate this into your project, you would need to read the paper and then use the ideas into your project. In your project, you would say, for example, that you would use the method of Singh and Padhi to convert the jatropha oil into biodiesel. You could use the equations and the data from the article to estimate the yields you might obtain with your process.

If you incorporate one or more papers for every step of your project, your project would have very good credibility.

I don’t know of any on-line science competitions that are open at this time. I will let you know if I hear of one.


Donna Hardy

[PRAKASHKUMAR]

i have prepared i small report of the project. if more details required please get me know

[donnahardy2]

Hi,

This looks very impressive. I am looking forward to reading this and I will send you some comments tomorrow.

Donna Hardy