EMG during electrical paralysis

[anandmeep]

Hello,
My name is Anand. I am working on a project that requires the measurement of muscle voltage while simultaneously countering that muscle voltage to stop movement.
I planned to do this using a single transcranial magnetic stimulation coil over the motor cortex to stop all muscle signals by inducing a negative voltage, and having simple probes pick up voltage from muscles. However, I still cannot think of a way to use only a single coil, but still measure the voltage due to the lack of signals from the brain.
Is there an easy way to stop muscles from moving electrically, but still be able to measure the electrical signals emanating from the muscles?
Thank you!

P.S. I would not like to use normal high voltage electrodes to stop muscles for safety reasons.

[SciB]

Hi Anand,

This is a very intriguing project, but i have one question--WHAT or WHO are you planning on using as the subjects of your experiments? I would not recommend trying to use human volunteers as you would need to write a detailed application, draft a consent form, decide on exclusion and inclusion criteria and submit it to an institutional review board to obtain permission. You would also have to show them that you had the training and the specialized equipment for administering a transcranial pulse without harming the people.

Doing experiments on animals also has extensive requirements that must be satisfied before you can get permission to do such a study.

It is possible to do experiments on isolated muscle cells in culture, but to do this you would need to find a university physiology lab equipped for tissue culture and measuring voltage pulses. And if I understood your description right, you want to affect the muscles through altering the transmission of signals from the brain by means of TCS. This could be done using an animal model, but probably not with tissue culture.

Maybe some of the other experts can suggest a viable test system for you to use.

Good luck!

Sybee

[anandmeep]

Thank you! I was wondering how I could test without using human volunteers.
The problem is not with the TMS or with the EMG separately though, it's more of a problem on how to combine them with all the nerve endings and synapses in between. So something with a complete nervous system such as mammals would be suitable. I will look into animal testing more for sure.

EDIT: Actually, I haven't thought of consent form issues at all. This is not for medical use or for test data; it is more of a works/ doesn't work sort of thing. Under what conditions do you need to submit an application or applications for testing? Is it illegal to test on myself?
I would google this, but I'm not sure what search terms to use.

[SciB]

Hi Anand,

Consent forms are needed if you DO something to a subject like give them a drug or perform TCS on them. I don't think it's 'illegal' to experiment on yourself, but you cannot obtain scientifically valid data from only one subject.

Do some looking online into what animal models are used for studying brain-nerve-muscle interactions. As you said, a mammal such as a mouse would probably be the animal of choice although a reptile or amphibian might be usable. Animal experiments, especially with mammals, requires a lot of permissions, training, facilities and equipment. Unless you can find a lab that is doing this kind of work with an animal model, it's going to be tough.

Maybe one of the other experts can suggest an alternative. In fact that is one of the first questions on the animal use application. How do you justify using animals for the experiments instead of some non-animal model. You are required to search for non-animal models that could be used to obtain the same data. Usually there aren't any which is why animals have to be used to obtain results that are meaningful in terms of human drugs and treatments.

Good luck in your search and keep posting. We'll do everything possible to help you get your project going.

Sybee

[anandmeep]

Okay, thank you! I need to conduct some non-biological tests first anyway, so I'll check back when those are done.