A question

[deleted-663568]

Hi again I was just wondering how can I
measure the radiation in air ?

[EricBebenov24]

Welcome back,
In our previous discussion we talked about how you could use an electromagnetic radiation detector to measure the radiation in the enclosed container after you have applied the aerosol spray inside. This is one of many radiation detecting devices that you could use. There is also a device called a Geiger Counter which measures ionizing radiation. If you don't have access to a radiation detecting device, you could consider making one yourself. I hope your project is going well and if you have any further questions, please ask!

EricBebenov24

[deleted-663568]

Hi again I was wondering if I could somehow measure the pressure in an aerosol can for example a hairspray bottle

[deleted-663568]

Thank you!! I’ve been looking for something like this eveywhere

[deleted-663568]

Hi again sorry for asking so many questions but I was wondering if you can measure radiation through temperature

[MadelineB]

Hello Lily,

I've merged your questions into your previous thread so the expert who has been helping you will see that you have follow-up questions. Please keep your questions on this topic in this thread - this helps the experts help you more quickly. Thanks!

Madeline
Moderator

[EricBebenov24]

Hello,
the relationship between temperature and radiation is that the higher the temperature, the amount of emitted energy increases, therefore radiation. However, using temperature alone would not give you the exact amount of radiation in an enclosed container, so you might need to measure other factors which would allow you to come up with the exact radiation.
Feel free to ask for clarification!

EricBebenov24

[deleted-663568]

Thank you for all your help. So what would be some other factors I can measure. And is there a law to measure the radiation through temperature for example the Stefan-Boltzmann law but it only applies to black bodies or planks law. Also I’ve been thinking measuring the amount of radiation maybe difficult because the aerosols I am using are cool and don’t contain enough carbon. So would it be better to measure the reflectivity of the aerosol instead of the amount of radiation it absorbs or would that be harder. I hope this isn’t confusing

[EricBebenov24]

Alright,
I was able to find this website here which provides information on how to use the Stefan-Boltzmann Law for objects that are not ideal black bodies: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radi ... d_431.html
Some of the factors other than temperature which you would need include emissivity, which would depend on the type of material you are using, and the area of the object you are using. Concerning which way to measure the amount of radiation, this article deals with the radiation of energy to the cooler surroundings around the object, therefore it would be better to measure the reflectivity of the aerosol. Read through the article and see how it is relevant to the specifics of your experiment, and come back with any questions that you might have. I hope this article helps!

[deleted-663568]

Thank you so much for responding again sorry for asking so many questions but how would I measure reflectivity of the aerosol
(Hairspray)?

[EricBebenov24]

For the emissivity of the hairspray bottle, you could try finding out what material the hairspray bottle is made out of and look up that material's emissivity, such as steel or aluminum.
For the temperature of the hairspray bottle, or the hot body absolute temperature, you could try heating up the aerosol (hairspray bottle) in some water until a specific temperature is reached, which you would record. You could then measure the absolute temperature of the colder surroundings inside of the container you would be using. This could be done using a thermometer that could measure atmospheric temperature.
For the area, or surface area, of the hairspray bottle, try splitting it up into regular shapes and find the surface area of all of the smaller, individual, shapes and add all of the individual surface areas at the end. For example, there are cylindrically shaped hairspray bottles that you could use, or ones that have other definite shapes. Or, you could have a cylinder with a hemisphere at the top.
Finally, plug all of the values into the equation: q = ε σ (Th4 - Tc4) Ah
Hopefully, that would give you the net radiation loss rate for the aerosol (hairspray).
If you need any clarification for any of these steps, please do not hesitate to ask!

[deleted-663568]

Thank you very much it has been a pleasure working with you the equation measures reflectivity?Just to make sure

[EricBebenov24]

The equation measures the net radiation loss rate, or the radiation that is reflected off of the aerosol hairspray can. So yes, it measures reflectivity of radiation from the aerosol.
It has been a pleasure working with you too, and come back with any other questions you might have throughout the way!

[deleted-663568]

Hi I’ve been trying to test how pressure affects reflectivity so I found out that different aerosols such as spray paint , hair spray have different amounts of propellent
Which affects the pressure. But that would mean I would have 2 different variables is that possible?

[EricBebenov24]

Hi there,
I am not quite understanding what your concern is. Yes, there are different types of aerosols such as hairspray cans or spray paint cans, but you can just choose whichever one you prefer. You could, however, conduct multiple trials of the experiment using the different types of aerosol cans, which would act as a comparison once you come up with the overall results of the experiment.
I hope this helps!

[deleted-663568]

Thank you for the response I have figured out what to do thank you so much you have been a major help. Also would u measure the cold absolute temperature before or after putting the heated up aerosol mixture. Also I heat the actual bottle up and then spray the aerosol into the container?

[EricBebenov24]

You would measure the cold absolute temperature right before you place the heated aerosol mixture into the container. This way, no temperature would be lost. Regarding how you should heat up the aerosol, have the bottle with the aerosol inside and place it in a fixed temperature of heated water. By doing this, you would allow the entire system (bottle and aerosol) to absorb the heat and have a uniform temperature.
Sorry if I haven't been getting back to you on time, and I appreciate your kindness!

[deleted-663568]

Hi no problem, what temperature would you recommend the water should be because as you know an aerosol can explode in high heat

[EricBebenov24]

You would want your water to be warm, but not boiling hot. The standard temperature for warm water ranges from 43.3-32.2 degrees Celsius.

[deleted-663568]

Hi again thank you so much again just another question when I measure the pressure of the can should I use the temperature it is at or the temperature when it is in the water and heated to a certain temperature. Also when I plug the numbers in the equation for the net radiation loss how do I use Stefan Boltzmans law and lastly do I multiply Th4 for example the temperature is 25 degrees Celsius do I multiply it by 4. I’m really sorry if this is a lot of questions I cannot stress how thankful I am for your help.

[deleted-663568]

Also does Ah in the equation stand for area
And in the equation ε σ (Th4 - Tc4) Ah are the units for the temperature supposed to be in Kelvin again so sorry for asking so many questions. Thank you

[EricBebenov24]

When you are measuring the pressure of the can, you should measure the temperature after it is heated and placed in the controlled, container system. Measure it as soon as possible so you could get an accurate reading before any temperature is lost.
Regarding how to use the Stefan Boltzmann law, I formulated an answer to this question in a previous response, so I will just paste it into here: For the emissivity of the hairspray bottle, you could try finding out what material the hairspray bottle is made out of and look up that material's emissivity, such as steel or aluminum.
For the temperature of the hairspray bottle, or the hot body absolute temperature, you could try heating up the aerosol (hairspray bottle) in some water until a specific temperature is reached, which you would record. You could then measure the absolute temperature of the colder surroundings inside of the container you would be using. This could be done using a thermometer that could measure atmospheric temperature.
For the area, or surface area, of the hairspray bottle, try splitting it up into regular shapes and find the surface area of all of the smaller, individual, shapes and add all of the individual surface areas at the end. For example, there are cylindrically shaped hairspray bottles that you could use, or ones that have other definite shapes. Or, you could have a cylinder with a hemisphere at the top.
Finally, plug all of the values into the equation: q = ε σ (Th4 - Tc4) Ah
You don't multiply the difference between the temperatures by 4, but instead raise it to the fourth power. I hope that clarifies the way the equation was processed into this textbox.
The temperature would be measured in degrees celsius, and the area would be measured in meters. And yes, Ah does stand for the area.
Don't hesitate to ask other questions, and I will try to answer them on time!

[deleted-663568]

Thank you so much for your response just to clarify q = ε σ (Th4 - Tc4) Ac
E in the equation is emissaivity
o= The value of the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is approximately 5.67 x 10 -8 watt per meter squared per kelvin to the fourth (W · m -2 · K -4 ).
The Stefan Boltzmann constant uses kelvin?
Also the pressure of the aerosol can seems to be about 108 atm? Is that too high the equation I used is mass divides by molar mass multiplied by atm constant divided the volume in litres multiplying it by the temp in (k) take your time to answer this question and again so sorry for taking up your time

[EricBebenov24]

The E in the equation is emissivity.
If this is the symbol that you mean (σ), it is placed to show that you should take the difference of the temperature between the inside of the aerosol and its surrounding environment. I don't think the equation requires you to plug in the Stefan Boltzmann constant.
To find the pressure of the aerosol, you can use the ideal gas law equation: pV = nRT
-you would find the volume the aerosol occupies V
-you would find the moles of gas inside n
-the R value is 0.08206
-T is for the temperature of the aerosol.
(Don't forget to measure the volume in liters, as well as convert the temperature to Kelvin) Everything in the equation should be in STP (Standard Temperature Pressure)
See if this equation would yield similar results for your pressure.
I hope this helps and clarifies!

[deleted-663568]

Thank you so much I have successfully completed my experiment, I look forward to working with you in the future I couldn’t have done this project without you

[EricBebenov24]

It was a pleasure working with you, and I look forward to working with you too regarding any new projects you have in mind.