If three fast food restaurants toilet water is....

[AJF]

My topic is If three fast food restaurants toilet water is cleaner than their drinkng water. For the most part i have an idea about what i would like to do and how to do it, but i need help with trying to find more information regarding this topic.... PLEASE GIVE ALL SUGGESTIONS, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN THE FAST FOOD DEPARTMENT, OR ANYTHING THAT WIL HELP ME PLEASE DO!!
THANK YOU in advance

[ChrisG]

Hi AJF,
Welcome to the Ask an Expert forums. There are national water quality standards and local heath regulations that address the concentration of contaminants in drinking water served at a restaurant. In general, I can not think of any reason that drinking water from fast food restaurants would be consistently better or worse than the drinking water from any other restaurant or home. Water in a toilet bowl will have higher concentrations of fecal coliform bacteria and, perhaps, cleaning agents that are not intended for consumption.
I would recommend that you search the internet and libraries for information on "drinking water quality" and "waste water". Waste water includes things like toilet water that are expected to be more contaminated than drinking water. I would also recommend defining what you mean by "clean", specifically which contaminants you are going to study and analyze. If you are considering contamination by microbes, then a water treated with strong bleach could be considered "clean." However, if you are considering chemical contaminants and those microbes happen to be at harmless concentrations, then the untreated water could be considered more "clean".
Looking forward to hearing more about your experiment,
Chris

[AJF]

O wow, i didn't think about what i would consider "clean water"...... Ok thanx you really did give me alot to think about.... While i was researching the topic i found alot of articles about how a 12 year old girl did a science project pretty similar to mine, except she was seeing if ice in fastfood resturants were cleaner(or had less bacteria in it) than toilet water. Her results were that the toilet water was cleaner*Eww* So i'm thinking if that was the results for ice than it most certainly would be the same for water....

Well, if you have anymore suggestions PLEASSSSEEEE let me know!

-AJ

[ChrisG]

Hi AJF,
Are you talking about this widely reported story?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... test_x.htm

Unappetizing experiment sizzles in media
By Melissa Mixon, USA TODAY
...The seventh-grader at Benito Middle School in Tampa conducted a winning science fair experiment that found that ice at some fast-food restaurants contains more bacteria than toilet water...

That experiment received a lot of media attention because most people people assume that "toilet water" is filthy, and so they also assume that those ice cubes must have been incredibly filthy. In fact, the "toilet water" bacterial concentrations were comparable to tap water, and the ice was not as heavily contaminated as the headlines might lead you to believe. To the student's credit it sounds like she did a very good job of running the experiment under the guidance of a university researcher.

I think it would make a nice experiment to test bacterial concentrations in public locations and restaurants. With regards to testing water versus ice, the consensus seems to be that most bacterial contamination of ice cubes comes from handling by employees and storage in contaminated ice machines, and not from the water itself.
The basic instructions for these types of projects are here and can be adapted for your own purposes:
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... o&from=TSW

Looking forward to hearing more about your experiment,
Chris

[AJF]

Yea thats it! O, and I read the link talking about microorganisim's that help the human body, but can also destroy it by causing fatal diseases... So in your personal opinion do you think that the drinking water will have less harmful bacteria than the toilet water?!?!? I use to think that the toilet water would be cleaner, but after more research and your suggestions, I'm starting to think otherwise. Also, I never thought about the ice (in the news article) being dirtier (or having more harmful bacteria's) than the toilet water mainly b/c of the containers/dispensers that it's stored in. But, since that's probably why the ice had more harmful bacteria in it, could the same be with drinking water. Like maybe due to improper cleaning of the dispensers that hold the drinking water it might be "dirtier" than the toilet water......
-AJ

[ChrisG]

Hi AJ,
My guess is that drinking water from the tap would have very low concentrations of bacteria, but drinking water from a manually refilled dispenser might have higher concentrations of bacteria than tap water or fresh toilet water. Ultimately, It all depends on the conditions of treatment and storage at a particular location. In addition to the comparison of food & drinks with toilet water, I'd encourage you to think about the "bigger picture" of where we find pathogenic and nonpathogenic bacteria in our everyday environment, and what it means for our health. For testing bacterial contamination, there are many other options of food, drinks, and locations that you can examine. One person who has made a living with these kinds of experiments is Charles Gerba:
http://cals.arizona.edu/media/archives/6.11.html
Here are some other related studies:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7667499.stm
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... 4/6/1028-a
http://www.webmd.com/news/20070625/top- ... ia-at-home

There are many interesting questions that come up reading these sorts of things. For example, are the concentrations found on the fast food ice higher or lower than concentrations commonly found in ice or drinks prepared at home?

Also, just as an item of possible interest, I'd recommend reading a little about scientific debates about the advantages and disadvantages of "clean" versus "dirty". For example:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

It seems like your focus will be on bacteria, so I'm going to move this to the earth and life sciences forum where it will get more attention from microbiologists.
Chris

[AJF]

Ok! And i mainly wanted to test the bacterial contamination in fastfood resturants only because i know alot of people in my generation (young and old ) love fastfood, and i know every time my family and i go to certain places such as Mcdonalds or BurgerKing we always get a cup of ice water, and sometimes it really does taste like toilet water. But, if i were to test the bacterial contamination of another location food, or drink, what/where would you suggest?!?!?

-AJ

[ChrisG]

AJ,
Your nose and taste buds are some of the cheapest and most sensitive scientific instruments around, so I'm glad you are using them to guide your choice of experiments.
You should choose whatever topic interests you the most. I just wanted you to be aware of all the possibilities that are given in those articles and papers which I mentioned.
Chris

[AJF]

LOL ok! Thanx for your good suggestions, i do appreciate them.
-AJ