Pretreatment Flux Rates for Nanofiltration

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:57 am

Hi.

What is the difference between the size of a nanoparticle and an atom. What actually makes something nanotechnology besides the size? Is it just the froming of a small machine?

Thanks Andrew Palosaari

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:41 pm

Hi Andrew,
Nano-technology does not necessarily involve machines. Nanoparticles such as titanium oxide are materials rather than machines. A good general definition is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology
That article tells you the size of particles used in nanotechnology. To answer your first question, try an internet search for "size of an atom nanometers".
Chris

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:57 am

But is the nanoparticle composed of many atoms?

Thanks,
Andrew

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:10 am

Yes. If you look up that info on the sizes of nanoparticles versus the size of atoms you will get a sense of the different scales of size.

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:39 am

Hi,

I've been trying to compose a science experiment on the effects a nanotechnology filter on microbes in a marsh. Does anyone know which microbes are beneficial and which one are harmful in water. I've done some searching and can't seem to find much.

Thanks,
Andrew

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:43 am

Also does anyone know of any professors working with nanotechnology water filters that I may be able to test?

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:44 pm

Hi Andrew,
I have combined your new thread with your previous thread so that the experts will have an easier time following your project development.

Environmental microbiology is a very broad topic. Whether microbes are "beneficial" or "harmful" depends on the problem you are trying to solve. If you want to minimize concentrations of nitrate (NO3) then denitrifying bacteria could be called "beneficial". If you would like to maintain oxygen rich water, then any microbe using O2 for respiration (including many denitrifying bacteria) could be called "harmful". Our experts can offer more specific assistance if you will tell us more about your project, including the scientific question and hypothesis. If you do not yet have a scientific question or hypothesis, I would recommend taking a look at the information on this web page and pages linked from there:
http://www.sciencebuddies.com/science-f ... l?From=tab

I know of some researchers working at University of California in Davis, CA who are working on nanofilter technology.
http://www.chms.ucdavis.edu/faculty/stroeve/

I hope that helps. Looking forward to hearing more about your project.
Chris

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:49 pm

Thank You,

I was thinking about some organisms that may eat harmful bacteria or perhaps provide food for other endangered organisms, though the ones you mentioned are great too. Right now I am trying to plan a (possibly multi-year) experiment on the topic of nanotechnology and water treatment to determine the most efficient and least environmentally harmful nanotechnology water filtration method for an urban environment like Madrona Marsh Preserve in Torrance. I am open to any other nanotechnology water treatment topics too though. I have been thinking about possibly getting a nanofilter from professor working with the material to treat water for an urban environment and testing its effects on microorganisms in an urban environment such as the Madrona Marsh Preserve, Torrance, CA. The filter would then be accepted or rejected in this environment.

Andrew

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Oh, Chris

How do you change your status of were you are in your project and when your due date is? Must I re register to change my status?

Andrew

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:33 am

Andrew,
To change the displayed status for your project, click on "user control panel" on the top left of your screen. Then click on the "profile" tab. There is a pull-down menu on that page to change your status.

Your topic sounds very interesting and open for all sort of good possibilities. I would recommend developing a formal scientific question of one or two sentences that you can use as a starting point to do your background research. That will help to keep you focused as you navigate the numerous topics in wetlands science, microbiology, and nanotechnology. When you have formulated a specific question, please post it here so that we can further assist with your research plans.

Thanks,
Chris

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:34 pm

Hi,

I've been doing some thinking on my science experiment and have decided to go into a slightly different direction in water treatment. I am thinking about determining the appropriate prefiltration system in order to minimize the fouling of a nanofilter. I will determine flux rates* for the prefilter(s) for vernal Madrona Marsh Preserve water samples from different parts of the marsh to determine their feasibility in this environment.
The Madrona Marsh Preserve is located in Torrance, CA and is feed by storm runoff from the surrounding urban/semi-commercial area. It has two main inlets: directly off the street and off the street after it has settled in a 84ft. deep sump built to hold water in case of a 100 year storm. Water is occasionally pumped out of the sump to feed the marsh. In the sump, sedimentation occurs in the water removing most of the large sand particles. Directly from the road the water would be more polluted. I can also determine the pretreatment filters for each of these inlets.

*Flux rates are basically membrane preformance. I will be using the same techniques as the research book "Optimization of Membrane Treatment for Direct and Clarifed Water FIltration" (Igot this book from the UCI library). It shows flux rate formulas and the method testing: as time passes an electronic balance weighs how much water is comes out of being pushed through a membrane. When less water is pushed through the membrane with equal PSI flux rates drop showing the that membrane has fouled with material such as total organic carbon.

I still must determine exactly which pretreatment membrane(s) to test in order to determine the appropriate filtration system to be applied at Madrona Marsh.
My goal is to get advice from a professor that is working in this field to mentor my project. I am strongly open to any advice suggestions regarding my project or references on pretreatment for nanofilters. Anything said would be appreciated.

Thank You,
Andrew Palosaari

P.S The following message is directed to Chris G, the moderator. Would you mind changing my main subject of my thread from "Nanotech & the Atom" to "Pretreatment Flux Rates for Nanofiltration."
Thanks

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:40 pm

Hi,

I've been doing some thinking on my science experiment on water treatment. I am thinking about determining the appropriate prefiltration system in order to minimize the fouling of a nanofilter. I will determine flux rates* for the prefilter(s) for vernal Madrona Marsh Preserve water samples from different parts of the marsh to determine their feasibility in this environment.
The Madrona Marsh Preserve is located in Torrance, CA and is feed by storm runoff from the surrounding urban/semi-commercial area. It has two main inlets: directly off the street and off the street after it has settled in a 84ft. deep sump built to hold water in case of a 100 year storm. Water is occasionally pumped out of the sump to feed the marsh. In the sump, sedimentation occurs in the water removing most of the large sand particles. Directly from the road the water would be more polluted. I can also determine the pretreatment filters for each of these inlets.

*Flux rates are basically membrane preformance. I will be using the same techniques as the research book "Optimization of Membrane Treatment for Direct and Clarifed Water FIltration" (Igot this book from the UCI library). It shows flux rate formulas and the method testing: as time passes an electronic balance weighs how much water is comes out of being pushed through a membrane. When less water is pushed through the membrane with equal PSI flux rates drop showing the that membrane has fouled with material such as total organic carbon.

I still must determine exactly which pretreatment membrane(s) to test in order to determine the appropriate filtration system to be applied at Madrona Marsh.
My goal is to get advice from a professor that is working in this field to mentor my project. I am strongly open to any advice suggestions regarding my project or references on pretreatment for nanofilters. Anything said would be appreciated.

Thank You,
Andrew Palosaari

MelissaB · Post by **MelissaB** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:27 am

Andrew,

I just wanted to say that this sounds like an excellent project with clear real-world applications. Unfortunately, I don't work with nanofilters so I don't have any advice for you in terms of your project. However, I would recommend that you contact your local university/college and see if any of the professors or graduate students there are working on similar projects. If they are, you might ask them if they would be willing to sit down and talk with you about your project and/or mentor you.

scrubjay · Post by **scrubjay** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:38 pm

Thanks
Any contacts would be appreciated.
Andrew Palosaari

tdaly · Post by **tdaly** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:00 pm

Andrew,

As ChrisG mentioned in an earlier post, we ask that you please keep all questions about your project on a single thread. This helps the Experts better help you. You need to abide by the rules of the Forums to receive help here. Please, keep you questions on one topic. I have combined this topic with your other one.

Thank you.