Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
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Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
I am working with my niece on a school project. Attached is a pic of the current parts I am using. There is a 7mm amplitude High-Torque Brushless Motor that oscillates with a circuit board, an on/off button and stem. The device is currently powered with a battery. Is there a way I can use my iPhone to power the device i am building instead of a battery? Is there a way to plug into my iPhone and wire it directly to power my device?
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Hi,
Hi - I've tried to answer your question below, but before any of that, I'd like to clarify why exactly you want to power the motor with your iPhone instead of the battery. If your goal is to control it with the phone (e.g. turn it on and off using an app), that is very different than just using the phone as an external battery. If your goal is to have it run from wall power instead of a battery, then the phone isn't necessary. So if you can clarify your intent here, that will help, but below I'll try to answer the "can I power this with an iPhone" question. In general, I would not recommend using a $1,000 iPhone as an external battery to power a motor (as opposed to a more "normal" use like charging another phone), as there are various things that could go wrong that could damage the iPhone.
---
The general answer to "can you use a phone as a battery bank to charge something else" is "yes." For example, see this article: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/09/2 ... th-iphone/
The specific answer to "can I use it to power this motor" is "it depends." Depends on what? The voltage and current required by the motor, and the voltage and current your phone can provide.
USB ports operate at 5 volts (voltage). From the article I linked above, the iPhone 15 can charge other devices at up to 4.5 watts (power). There is an equation relating voltage, current, and power:
Power = Current x Voltage
So, we can use that equation to calculate the maximum current the iPhone can provide
Current = Power / Voltage = 4.5W / 5V = 0.9A, or 900 milliamps (mA), which is indeed enough to power some small motors.
As to whether that will work with THIS motor - if you flip the blue battery pack over, is there writing on the other side that indicates the voltage? For example, if it's a rechargeable lithium ion battery pack, it might be something like 7.4V, which is higher than the 5V a USB port can provide. The motor might not spin at all or might spin slower than usual, but without much more information (like a datasheet for the motor), the only good way to find out is to try it. Which again, I would not recommend doing due to the risk of damage to a very expensive phone.
Again, if you can provide more details about your overall intent here, I might be able to help more.
Thanks,
Ben
Hi - I've tried to answer your question below, but before any of that, I'd like to clarify why exactly you want to power the motor with your iPhone instead of the battery. If your goal is to control it with the phone (e.g. turn it on and off using an app), that is very different than just using the phone as an external battery. If your goal is to have it run from wall power instead of a battery, then the phone isn't necessary. So if you can clarify your intent here, that will help, but below I'll try to answer the "can I power this with an iPhone" question. In general, I would not recommend using a $1,000 iPhone as an external battery to power a motor (as opposed to a more "normal" use like charging another phone), as there are various things that could go wrong that could damage the iPhone.
---
The general answer to "can you use a phone as a battery bank to charge something else" is "yes." For example, see this article: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/09/2 ... th-iphone/
The specific answer to "can I use it to power this motor" is "it depends." Depends on what? The voltage and current required by the motor, and the voltage and current your phone can provide.
USB ports operate at 5 volts (voltage). From the article I linked above, the iPhone 15 can charge other devices at up to 4.5 watts (power). There is an equation relating voltage, current, and power:
Power = Current x Voltage
So, we can use that equation to calculate the maximum current the iPhone can provide
Current = Power / Voltage = 4.5W / 5V = 0.9A, or 900 milliamps (mA), which is indeed enough to power some small motors.
As to whether that will work with THIS motor - if you flip the blue battery pack over, is there writing on the other side that indicates the voltage? For example, if it's a rechargeable lithium ion battery pack, it might be something like 7.4V, which is higher than the 5V a USB port can provide. The motor might not spin at all or might spin slower than usual, but without much more information (like a datasheet for the motor), the only good way to find out is to try it. Which again, I would not recommend doing due to the risk of damage to a very expensive phone.
Again, if you can provide more details about your overall intent here, I might be able to help more.
Thanks,
Ben
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
We appreciate your thoughtful response, Ben. The purpose of using the iphone as the powersource was to decrease the overall weight and bulkiness of the battery. My niece is trying to make create a small, truly mobile device with some functionality to it. This is the first of many projects Im sure that will lead her more towards mobile robot competitions in the future. We don't want to plug into a wall because we wanted it to be completely mobile. So we were thinking, why not remove the battery altogether and use the iphone as our power source. (a true power source, not through an app) And her device would be much lighter and sleeker in design. I attached a picture of the back of the battery so you can see the stipulations on it. It looks to be either a 11.1V or 12.6V, which, from your response, seems to be much more of an output than an Iphone can provide.So weight and bulkiness are what we are ultimately trying to limit or avoid. With that being the case, would you have suggestions of smaller, lighter batteries to consider or a smaller motor with similar oscillation speeds that are sleeker in stature? I bought some other parts for us to experiment with 5V -- 2A 7.4 V 2200mAh 15W (are the stips listed on the package of parts) seems to have the perfect output for what we are trying to achieve but a bit bulkier than would work for our design. Again, I'm the furthest thing from an engineer. Just trying to help my niece. So any and all suggestions you have are greatly appreciated.
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Hi,
Let me back up a bit before going further - what is the overall goal of the project? What are you trying to build/what are you using this motor for? That may help determine whether it makes sense to use this motor at all vs something else.
In the meantime though - in general the tradeoff you will make with a smaller battery (assuming the voltage is the same) is a shorter runtime. Think of D, C, AA, and AAA batteries for example since they are more common. They are all the same voltage (1.5V) but the much larger D batteries can provide more current for longer.
You can search online to find a variety of rechargeable batteries at different voltages and capacities (the "mAh" number, which stands for milliamp-hours. 1mAh means it can provide one milliamp for one hour, so the battery pictured below can provide 650mA for 1 hour, or 1300mA for 30 minutes, etc). It looks like you have already gotten started there with purchasing one.
If your goal is to reduce size/weight then it will definitely make sense to just use one of those batteries instead of a phone. The phone contains a bunch of other non-battery stuff (the case, screen, other electronics inside) that just needlessly adds space and weight when all you need is a battery.
Again the trade-off will be that a bigger battery will run for longer, but take up more space and be heavier. That brings us full circle back to the original question of what the goal of the project is. Building a pocket-sized device that only needs to run intermittently will mean you have different requirements than something that needs to run continuously for long periods of time, or needs to run all day without recharging.
Let me back up a bit before going further - what is the overall goal of the project? What are you trying to build/what are you using this motor for? That may help determine whether it makes sense to use this motor at all vs something else.
In the meantime though - in general the tradeoff you will make with a smaller battery (assuming the voltage is the same) is a shorter runtime. Think of D, C, AA, and AAA batteries for example since they are more common. They are all the same voltage (1.5V) but the much larger D batteries can provide more current for longer.
You can search online to find a variety of rechargeable batteries at different voltages and capacities (the "mAh" number, which stands for milliamp-hours. 1mAh means it can provide one milliamp for one hour, so the battery pictured below can provide 650mA for 1 hour, or 1300mA for 30 minutes, etc). It looks like you have already gotten started there with purchasing one.
If your goal is to reduce size/weight then it will definitely make sense to just use one of those batteries instead of a phone. The phone contains a bunch of other non-battery stuff (the case, screen, other electronics inside) that just needlessly adds space and weight when all you need is a battery.
Again the trade-off will be that a bigger battery will run for longer, but take up more space and be heavier. That brings us full circle back to the original question of what the goal of the project is. Building a pocket-sized device that only needs to run intermittently will mean you have different requirements than something that needs to run continuously for long periods of time, or needs to run all day without recharging.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Thank you again for your thoughts.. We were trying to build the device to be secured to the back end of the iphone. (mounted to a plastic backing, not the iphone itself) As a group (a handful of parents/uncles w their kids) are setting up a play on the traditional foosball table game. (where the players use plastic figures to try to score a goal.) Each kid is going to create a replacement for the traditional figurine used in the game. My niece was assigned to make a more futuristic goalie that could stop a ping golf ball from going into the goal when the ball rolls towards it. So the motor will have a stem with a "shield' in front of it to stop the ball and push it away.
The device will only need to run intermittently. (It will probably need to run for up to two minutes, will be shut off and then restarted again at some point). So we really wanted to use the iphone as the base of the device, mount our device to the back of it and power the device via iphone. She eventually wants to work on the software side of things, so when her device "stops a goal" the screen side of the iphone will show different words such as "another stop on goal" This is a ways down the line but hopefully explains why we were looking to use the iphone to mount on and as the ultimate power source.
If that wasnt ideal, then we were trying to find the smallest, lightest battery and corresponding components we could mount that would power the motor to push the ball away when it came towards the robotic goalie.
To note, we want this device to be mobile so the kids can essentially play anywhere (lunch room table, take to different friends houses etc..)
The device will only need to run intermittently. (It will probably need to run for up to two minutes, will be shut off and then restarted again at some point). So we really wanted to use the iphone as the base of the device, mount our device to the back of it and power the device via iphone. She eventually wants to work on the software side of things, so when her device "stops a goal" the screen side of the iphone will show different words such as "another stop on goal" This is a ways down the line but hopefully explains why we were looking to use the iphone to mount on and as the ultimate power source.
If that wasnt ideal, then we were trying to find the smallest, lightest battery and corresponding components we could mount that would power the motor to push the ball away when it came towards the robotic goalie.
To note, we want this device to be mobile so the kids can essentially play anywhere (lunch room table, take to different friends houses etc..)
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Ok - thanks, that helps provide a lot more context.
Backing up a bit more - where did you get the motor you're using/why did you decide to use it to begin with? If you just need a very basic "circuit that spins a motor when you turn a battery on," then a much simpler approach might be to just use a regular AA battery pack and small brushed DC motor, such as the circuit used in our ArtBot project:
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ld-art-bot
The battery pack and motor in that project are roughly the size of a foosball table player when put together end-to-end, so I think the size would work well. When you throw a foosball into the mix with the iPhone, then I'd also start worrying about a cracked screen in addition to possible electrical damage.
This approach is potentially much simpler and cheaper to get starter, but the sky is the limit in terms of what your niece could eventually do with a project like this. I can point you to a few additional resources that might be helpful as you go forward (not necessarily in this order):
1) Scratch (https://scratch.mit.edu/) is a very beginner-friendly programming language designed for kids. You program with "blocks" that snap together sort of like building with LEGO bricks as opposed to writing lines of code in a text editor. It is a great way to introduce kids to programming, and a great first step before moving on to item #2. We have a variety of projects on our site that use Scratch: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ?s=scratch
2) MIT app inventor (https://appinventor.mit.edu/) is also a block-based programming language. It is more advanced than Scratch but it's specifically designed to let kids design apps that run on phones. Not as many as Scratch, but we also have some App Inventor projects: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p+inventor
3) Arduino (https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... an-arduino) is the go-to platform for controlling physical things like motors, using sensors, building robots, etc. This is where you go when you want to make the leap from "manually turn on the switch on the battery pack" to "have the motor turn on automatically when a sensor detects the ball is approaching." You can also connect to them with Bluetooth/Wifi and use your phone to control things, but that gets more advanced.
What path you take depends on the time scale for the project - i.e. is this the beginning of a multi-year journey into programming and electronics, or is this a once-and-done project? In either case, I would probably suggest foregoing the phone for now and sticking to the simpler battery pack + motor approach that I mentioned above, unless you have an older iPhone that you are not too worried about damaging. If her heart is set on using the phone, then there are some additional considerations about how to go from a USB-C plug to the two wires you need to power the motor, but that will get more complex and I'll save it for the next post if needed.
Backing up a bit more - where did you get the motor you're using/why did you decide to use it to begin with? If you just need a very basic "circuit that spins a motor when you turn a battery on," then a much simpler approach might be to just use a regular AA battery pack and small brushed DC motor, such as the circuit used in our ArtBot project:
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ld-art-bot
The battery pack and motor in that project are roughly the size of a foosball table player when put together end-to-end, so I think the size would work well. When you throw a foosball into the mix with the iPhone, then I'd also start worrying about a cracked screen in addition to possible electrical damage.
This approach is potentially much simpler and cheaper to get starter, but the sky is the limit in terms of what your niece could eventually do with a project like this. I can point you to a few additional resources that might be helpful as you go forward (not necessarily in this order):
1) Scratch (https://scratch.mit.edu/) is a very beginner-friendly programming language designed for kids. You program with "blocks" that snap together sort of like building with LEGO bricks as opposed to writing lines of code in a text editor. It is a great way to introduce kids to programming, and a great first step before moving on to item #2. We have a variety of projects on our site that use Scratch: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... ?s=scratch
2) MIT app inventor (https://appinventor.mit.edu/) is also a block-based programming language. It is more advanced than Scratch but it's specifically designed to let kids design apps that run on phones. Not as many as Scratch, but we also have some App Inventor projects: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... p+inventor
3) Arduino (https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science- ... an-arduino) is the go-to platform for controlling physical things like motors, using sensors, building robots, etc. This is where you go when you want to make the leap from "manually turn on the switch on the battery pack" to "have the motor turn on automatically when a sensor detects the ball is approaching." You can also connect to them with Bluetooth/Wifi and use your phone to control things, but that gets more advanced.
What path you take depends on the time scale for the project - i.e. is this the beginning of a multi-year journey into programming and electronics, or is this a once-and-done project? In either case, I would probably suggest foregoing the phone for now and sticking to the simpler battery pack + motor approach that I mentioned above, unless you have an older iPhone that you are not too worried about damaging. If her heart is set on using the phone, then there are some additional considerations about how to go from a USB-C plug to the two wires you need to power the motor, but that will get more complex and I'll save it for the next post if needed.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
read your last message with my niece a few times last night as we got our thoughts together. We are going to experiment with a few different options. We are first going to work with some of the existing parts that we have/displayed in prior photos. We purchased the parts online as part of devices that seemed to have similar functionality to what we ultimately want to achieve. (but we are definitely not married to these parts and can easily pivot away).
As for potential damage to the iphone, we plan on building a protective shield around the phone itself to ensure it never actually takes a hit from the ball/any damage that could arise.
We are also going to order/build our figurine with the ArtBot parts you recommended to get a sense of a bit more simplistic setup. We have some concerns that the output the "goalie shield" might not be as strong as we are looking for.
Of course, I think my niece still has her hopes set on iphone/USB-C plug setup. So I want to make sure to support that as well. If you have any information to share in regards to what would be needed for this setup, that would be great.
We will also be digging into the links you sent to help her get a better sense of resources/projects etc..
Thank you again for your support/guidance throughout this process!
As for potential damage to the iphone, we plan on building a protective shield around the phone itself to ensure it never actually takes a hit from the ball/any damage that could arise.
We are also going to order/build our figurine with the ArtBot parts you recommended to get a sense of a bit more simplistic setup. We have some concerns that the output the "goalie shield" might not be as strong as we are looking for.
Of course, I think my niece still has her hopes set on iphone/USB-C plug setup. So I want to make sure to support that as well. If you have any information to share in regards to what would be needed for this setup, that would be great.
We will also be digging into the links you sent to help her get a better sense of resources/projects etc..
Thank you again for your support/guidance throughout this process!
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
A few things:
1) Our ArtBot kit also contains additional motors and batteries for building smaller "bristlebots" that you do not need for this project. You can buy the motors directly if you search for "3V DC motor" and the battery packs if you search for "2xAA battery holder with cover and switch." Pay attention to the physical size of the motor and the wires/connectors it comes attached with though. This is pretty close to the motor in the kit:
https://www.jameco.com/z/FE-260B-20110- ... 37765.html
This is similar but doesn't come with wires so you'd have to solder them on:
https://www.jameco.com/z/MOT1N-Velleman ... 49256.html
And even though this is 3V, it's a much smaller "vibration" motor (the kind used to make cell phones or video game controllers vibrate) - not what you'd want for this project:
https://www.jameco.com/z/6ZK053-R-PINS- ... 37781.html
The battery holders are plentiful on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2xAA+battery ... and+switch
As are the motors - but it's generally much easier to get actual datasheets from an electronics vendor:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=3V+DC+motor+with+leads
2) I haven't tried it, but I have a hunch that if you attach a popsicle stick to the shaft of the ArtBot motor, it would be strong enough to whack a ping pong ball. It swirls around pretty fast. Although I guess technically there's a chance that if the ball is on the wrong side, you could help hit it into your own goal. That's a separate problem though.
3) USB-C is a little more complicated than the older rectangular USB-A ports you'd find on computers. Those ports had four pins: power positive, power negative, data positive, and data negative. The power +/- would provide the 5V used to charge/power devices and the data +/- would be used to send information (uploading a file etc). If you cut open a USB cord you wound find four wires inside, and in theory you could use a multimeter to figure out which was which, and then connect a motor directly to the power +/- wires. If you didn't want to cut the cable you could also buy an adapter like this ("VCC" is power + and "GND" is ground, or power -):
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12700
USB-C is more complicated because as you may have noticed, they're reversible. You can flip the entire plug upside down and it will still work. I haven't looked into it much yet but I *think* that means each individual wire inside the USB cable doesn't have a "fixed" role like with the older cables - there are some additional electronics that figure out which signal to send to which wire. So I think that means you can't just cut the cable and hardwire two of the wires to a motor - but you can still buy a breakout adapter like this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15100
Note how this one has six pins instead of four. I'm not sure without looking into it more what the CC1 and CC2 pins are for, but if you just want power for the motor you would use the VBUS (short for "bus voltage," same as power +) and GND pins, ignoring the other pins.
So to clarify, you should be able to buy that adapter and go:
iPhone <--> USB-C cable <--> adapter <---> motor wires to VBUS and GND pins
again, with the caution that that breakout is not providing any *electrical* protection for the iPhone - motors are electrically "noisy" and can cause voltage spikes when they operate, especially when they start or stop suddenly (ever notice your lights flicker when you start your washer/dryer or your furnace kicks on?). I cannot guarantee that this won't damage the iPhone's USB port. Protecting the iPhone from the motor electrically is possible but that's a much deeper dive into electrical engineering than we're ready for at this point.
Hope all of that helps, please continue to write back with questions.
1) Our ArtBot kit also contains additional motors and batteries for building smaller "bristlebots" that you do not need for this project. You can buy the motors directly if you search for "3V DC motor" and the battery packs if you search for "2xAA battery holder with cover and switch." Pay attention to the physical size of the motor and the wires/connectors it comes attached with though. This is pretty close to the motor in the kit:
https://www.jameco.com/z/FE-260B-20110- ... 37765.html
This is similar but doesn't come with wires so you'd have to solder them on:
https://www.jameco.com/z/MOT1N-Velleman ... 49256.html
And even though this is 3V, it's a much smaller "vibration" motor (the kind used to make cell phones or video game controllers vibrate) - not what you'd want for this project:
https://www.jameco.com/z/6ZK053-R-PINS- ... 37781.html
The battery holders are plentiful on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2xAA+battery ... and+switch
As are the motors - but it's generally much easier to get actual datasheets from an electronics vendor:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=3V+DC+motor+with+leads
2) I haven't tried it, but I have a hunch that if you attach a popsicle stick to the shaft of the ArtBot motor, it would be strong enough to whack a ping pong ball. It swirls around pretty fast. Although I guess technically there's a chance that if the ball is on the wrong side, you could help hit it into your own goal. That's a separate problem though.
3) USB-C is a little more complicated than the older rectangular USB-A ports you'd find on computers. Those ports had four pins: power positive, power negative, data positive, and data negative. The power +/- would provide the 5V used to charge/power devices and the data +/- would be used to send information (uploading a file etc). If you cut open a USB cord you wound find four wires inside, and in theory you could use a multimeter to figure out which was which, and then connect a motor directly to the power +/- wires. If you didn't want to cut the cable you could also buy an adapter like this ("VCC" is power + and "GND" is ground, or power -):
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12700
USB-C is more complicated because as you may have noticed, they're reversible. You can flip the entire plug upside down and it will still work. I haven't looked into it much yet but I *think* that means each individual wire inside the USB cable doesn't have a "fixed" role like with the older cables - there are some additional electronics that figure out which signal to send to which wire. So I think that means you can't just cut the cable and hardwire two of the wires to a motor - but you can still buy a breakout adapter like this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15100
Note how this one has six pins instead of four. I'm not sure without looking into it more what the CC1 and CC2 pins are for, but if you just want power for the motor you would use the VBUS (short for "bus voltage," same as power +) and GND pins, ignoring the other pins.
So to clarify, you should be able to buy that adapter and go:
iPhone <--> USB-C cable <--> adapter <---> motor wires to VBUS and GND pins
again, with the caution that that breakout is not providing any *electrical* protection for the iPhone - motors are electrically "noisy" and can cause voltage spikes when they operate, especially when they start or stop suddenly (ever notice your lights flicker when you start your washer/dryer or your furnace kicks on?). I cannot guarantee that this won't damage the iPhone's USB port. Protecting the iPhone from the motor electrically is possible but that's a much deeper dive into electrical engineering than we're ready for at this point.
Hope all of that helps, please continue to write back with questions.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Thank you very much for the detailed response. Let me read through this to formulate any questions that may arise. We are going to start with the Artbot example and to also use the parts I displayed in earlier pictures to see which has a better result for my nieces goal. Quick follow up question, the Artbot seems to be more simplistic circuitry system vs the pictures I have displayed in prior posts. The prior posts include two separate circuitry boards. What are the purpose of the circuit boards as displayed? Is it to send a signal to the battery and to the motor that when the on/off switch is pressed its time to turn on/off? Sorry for the basic question. Im just curious because it seems like the Artbot will achieve the same result without the circuitry boards.
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Hi - can you provide a link to motor you bought? I can't really answer that question specifically without knowing exactly what you bought. A more general answer is that the ArtBot is an extremely simple circuit with just a motor and a battery pack with a switch. That only gives you manual on/off control. Other devices with motors might have additional circuitry to control the speed or position of the motor, make it automatically turn off after a certain amount of time (like an electric toothbrush), etc.
"Brushless" DC motors (like the one in the artbot kit) are also generally simpler and easier to control (they just need two wires), "brushed" DC motors (which I think you mentioned is what you have) are more complicated so some of the circuitry could be related to that. But again I can't say for sure just from the pictures, I'd need a link to what you bought.
"Brushless" DC motors (like the one in the artbot kit) are also generally simpler and easier to control (they just need two wires), "brushed" DC motors (which I think you mentioned is what you have) are more complicated so some of the circuitry could be related to that. But again I can't say for sure just from the pictures, I'd need a link to what you bought.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Sorry I have been out of touch. We were on a family vacation/Easter but now back and able to focus on the project again. The specifications on the motor we have been using says Model: BK-F22-A..RV: 12V, B010202720. I grabbed it from an old device I had so I don't have a specific link to send you..
We are noticing the weight of the overall device we are building is a bit heavier than we had hoped. Are there motors we can consider that are overall lighter in weight but still provide similar output? Something that is made out of a much lighter material you could point us in the direction of?
We are noticing the weight of the overall device we are building is a bit heavier than we had hoped. Are there motors we can consider that are overall lighter in weight but still provide similar output? Something that is made out of a much lighter material you could point us in the direction of?
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
Hi,
Unfortunately googling that part number is not turning up anything useful (lots of results for the F-22 raptor which of course is not what we want). What device did you take the motor out of? I can't say for sure what the extra circuit boards are for but as I think we discussed somewhere previously, it depends on the specifics of the device. For example, an electric toothbrush might have circuits that make it do an extra pulse every 30 seconds to remind you to switch to a different part of your mouth, and to turn off automatically after 2 minutes, as opposed to just a basic on/off switch like the Art Bot circuit.
If all you need is on/off control, then the extra circuit boards (and any additional plastic/metal casing left over from the original device) all add weight you do not need. The types of motors available in our Art Bot kit are available for purchase from online electronics stores. I believe this is the exact motor (or very close) to what we have in our Art Bot kit:
https://www.jameco.com/z/FE-260B-20110- ... 37765.html
That is convenient because it already has wires attached. Note that even though it is rated for 3 volts, it is much bigger than this smaller 3 volt "vibration" motor (the type you would find in an electric tooth brush, cell phone, or video game controller):
https://www.jameco.com/z/6ZK053-R-PINS- ... 37781.html
Both of those motors already have wires attached. If you just search for "3V DC motor" you will find a ton of options, but some don't come with wires so you would need to solder them on yourself. The size may not be immediately apparent from the pictures so you need to click on each one and read the details or look at the datasheet:
https://www.jameco.com/shop/KeywordSear ... V+DC+motor
These motors are also available all over Amazon - usually with cheaper or free shipping if you have Prime, but in packs of 10-12 and not for individual sale:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=3+V+DC+motor
Hope that helps. If you want to build a lighter device I would recommend one of those 3V motors which will work with a 2xAA battery pack like the Art Bot kit (each AA battery provides 1.5V, so two of them gets you 3V). Be careful no to order a 6V motor because that would require 4xAA batteries which would be much bulkier/heavier relative to the size of a foosball player.
Unfortunately googling that part number is not turning up anything useful (lots of results for the F-22 raptor which of course is not what we want). What device did you take the motor out of? I can't say for sure what the extra circuit boards are for but as I think we discussed somewhere previously, it depends on the specifics of the device. For example, an electric toothbrush might have circuits that make it do an extra pulse every 30 seconds to remind you to switch to a different part of your mouth, and to turn off automatically after 2 minutes, as opposed to just a basic on/off switch like the Art Bot circuit.
If all you need is on/off control, then the extra circuit boards (and any additional plastic/metal casing left over from the original device) all add weight you do not need. The types of motors available in our Art Bot kit are available for purchase from online electronics stores. I believe this is the exact motor (or very close) to what we have in our Art Bot kit:
https://www.jameco.com/z/FE-260B-20110- ... 37765.html
That is convenient because it already has wires attached. Note that even though it is rated for 3 volts, it is much bigger than this smaller 3 volt "vibration" motor (the type you would find in an electric tooth brush, cell phone, or video game controller):
https://www.jameco.com/z/6ZK053-R-PINS- ... 37781.html
Both of those motors already have wires attached. If you just search for "3V DC motor" you will find a ton of options, but some don't come with wires so you would need to solder them on yourself. The size may not be immediately apparent from the pictures so you need to click on each one and read the details or look at the datasheet:
https://www.jameco.com/shop/KeywordSear ... V+DC+motor
These motors are also available all over Amazon - usually with cheaper or free shipping if you have Prime, but in packs of 10-12 and not for individual sale:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=3+V+DC+motor
Hope that helps. If you want to build a lighter device I would recommend one of those 3V motors which will work with a 2xAA battery pack like the Art Bot kit (each AA battery provides 1.5V, so two of them gets you 3V). Be careful no to order a 6V motor because that would require 4xAA batteries which would be much bulkier/heavier relative to the size of a foosball player.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
I took the motor from a percussion massage gun. Here is a link I found on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKVG5VR1?ps ... ct_details
I thought it would be a good proxy since we would like to have the "goalie" have a similar percussive motion with its shield. This does have a push button start and stop and 3 different speeds which, as you highlighted, is probably the reason it has a couple of circuit boards.
Give me an idea of the strength of the more basic motor you mentioned with the 2 AA batteries in it such as the ArtBot or the motors from the other links you sent? Could those motors (3V) output/power the attached percussion gun with a similar output at its lowest setting that is has currently?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKVG5VR1?ps ... ct_details
I thought it would be a good proxy since we would like to have the "goalie" have a similar percussive motion with its shield. This does have a push button start and stop and 3 different speeds which, as you highlighted, is probably the reason it has a couple of circuit boards.
Give me an idea of the strength of the more basic motor you mentioned with the 2 AA batteries in it such as the ArtBot or the motors from the other links you sent? Could those motors (3V) output/power the attached percussion gun with a similar output at its lowest setting that is has currently?
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bfinio
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Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
So this can get complicated pretty fast, because now we're talking about gearing! But I'll try to explain. If you just turn the ArtBot motor on with nothing attached, it will spin really really fast, but it is not "strong" enough to do something like drive the wheel of a robot directly (technically, it does not have enough torque). To do that, you need to use gears, but there is a tradeoff - in order to increase torque, you have to decrease the speed. Overall energy is always conserved, there is no magical way to increase both torque AND speed.
I can't tell what, if anything, is attached to the motor in your original device, and whether there are any gears, but I assume there is also something to convert the motor's rotational motion into a back-and-forth vibration. Usually this takes the form of an off-center weight on the motor shaft that makes the whole thing vibrate when it spins. That is the same concept as putting an off-center cork on the Art Bot motor. But, the resulting motion from that vibration is very small - it isn't really going to hit a foosball very far. If you also attach a popsicle stick to the cork, now you have something spinning around that can whack the foosball.
I'm not quite clear on how the percussive/vibrating motion of the massager would work for hitting a foosball, but honestly at this point you are probably better off just testing it to find out. Try that motor since you already have it, and if you can't get it to work, buy a different one. Very roughly speaking, if you can further disassemble the massage gun to find the actual motor (as opposed to all the other boards/mechanicms etc) and it's roughly the same size as the Artbot motor (about an inch long and an inch-ish in diameter) then they are probably about the same strength. Bigger motors have more wire coils and bigger magnets and are stronger. That is a VERY loose statement though. This is just a ballpark way of saying, if the motor in the massage gun is the size of your fist, then it is probably much stronger than the ArtBot motor. Hope that all still makes sense.
I can't tell what, if anything, is attached to the motor in your original device, and whether there are any gears, but I assume there is also something to convert the motor's rotational motion into a back-and-forth vibration. Usually this takes the form of an off-center weight on the motor shaft that makes the whole thing vibrate when it spins. That is the same concept as putting an off-center cork on the Art Bot motor. But, the resulting motion from that vibration is very small - it isn't really going to hit a foosball very far. If you also attach a popsicle stick to the cork, now you have something spinning around that can whack the foosball.
I'm not quite clear on how the percussive/vibrating motion of the massager would work for hitting a foosball, but honestly at this point you are probably better off just testing it to find out. Try that motor since you already have it, and if you can't get it to work, buy a different one. Very roughly speaking, if you can further disassemble the massage gun to find the actual motor (as opposed to all the other boards/mechanicms etc) and it's roughly the same size as the Artbot motor (about an inch long and an inch-ish in diameter) then they are probably about the same strength. Bigger motors have more wire coils and bigger magnets and are stronger. That is a VERY loose statement though. This is just a ballpark way of saying, if the motor in the massage gun is the size of your fist, then it is probably much stronger than the ArtBot motor. Hope that all still makes sense.
Re: Power Source Inquiry for an Oscillating Motor
We are playing around with different motors/options per your guidance. I think her thought with the percussion end is to build a large shield in front that will continually have a "punching"percussive motion so if the ball comes the shield will push it away. But yes, you are correct in regards to gears and having a connecting device from the motor to the head of the percussive device. Its a little over my head at this point but we are doing our best to figure out what might work best. I think simpler to start would be more appropriate but Ill keep you posted as we progress.